Economics of casting?

[.38 Special]

Oh, with regard to counting "hobby time": I used to worry about it, but a wise man once interrupted my complaining by asking "So if you weren't spending your time on this, would you be at work earning money?". I may be lazier than most, but no, if I wasn't spending Sunday afternoon at the casting bench, I'd be out fishing or shooting or otherwise goofing off. For me, anyway, I now only consider my cost of labor if what I am doing is actually taking me away from money-earning tasks.

 

[HowieG]

I think some of us do the debate because what we mostly need is time. We have too many cool hobbies that we don't pay enough attention to because we just don't have enough time to do so. Adding even more hobbies to the list does is not a solution to the time problem. Even if you are retired, you still end up having time pressures if you are bright enough that the next shiny hobby catches your eye.

 

[WestKentucky]

An item I haven’t discussed on this thread at all is slugs. Not that I would cast many or use many, but at over a dollar a shot just for projectile there is ample room to save money there. My problem though is that I can’t find a mould for a 16ga slug. Not an impossible issue to overcome, but an issue nonetheless. I’m not opposed to making a mold, and I do believe it to be within my abilities. It would be pushing my abilities, but would not exceed them.

 

[Barbaroja]

I have lead sitting around here and so I also do the debate. And labor time does count if you have something else that you need to be doing. And equipment costs do count, including the tools to lube and size said bullets as necessary.

I noted a comment earlier about self sufficiency. Let me tell you that if you shoot centerfire, you will never be self reliant because you will need cases and will need primers and most will need smokeless powder. NONE of that stuff can you make yourself. The only nearly self reliant firearm I know of is a black powder flint lock muzzle loader. You can then find the lead and flint. You can cast round ball with nothing but a mold, a dipper, and a camp fire. And, you can learn to make your own propellent.

The bottom line is, do you WANT to try this hobby bad enough to discount the economics or not? If you do, fine. At present, I can buy perfectly good cast bullets from plenty of sources for a pretty reasonable price, so I haven't made the leap......yet.

It may have been my post that your referring to regarding self sufficiency. This thread is about casting bullets. Not cases, primers or powder. Certainly you will need those too but I meant self sufficiency in the way that your not relying on what’s available on the shelf, not some sort of end of the world scenario.

 

[HowieG]

With regard to counting "hobby time": I used to worry about it, but a wise man once interrupted my complaining by asking "So if you weren't spending your time on this, would you be at work earning money?". I may be lazier than most, but no, if I wasn't spending Sunday afternoon at the casting bench, I'd be out fishing or shooting or otherwise goofing off, so it's not as though I'm actually "losing money" by casting bullets.

I don't think fishing or shooting or playing golf or staying up at night taking pictures of the cosmos is goofing off. And I don't think casting bullets is goofing off either. Actually, I don't think goofing off is goofing off. It's for our mental health. But, there are only 24 hours in day and we have to sleep sometime. Plus naps. And a good glass of whiskey on the porch. Wait, that's for mental health too.......especially porch time.

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[Barbaroja]

An item I haven’t discussed on this thread at all is slugs. Not that I would cast many or use many, but at over a dollar a shot just for projectile there is ample room to save money there. My problem though is that I can’t find a mould for a 16ga slug. Not an impossible issue to overcome, but an issue nonetheless. I’m not opposed to making a mold, and I do believe it to be within my abilities. It would be pushing my abilities, but would not exceed them.

I started casting with the lee 1oz key drive slug For the same reason. As far as a 16ga I think that would be a custom job but I don’t think that would run you too much.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

An item I haven’t discussed on this thread at all is slugs.

I've never cast any slugs, but I have started casting buckshot lately and the cost and availability of that is a huge plus when you do it yourself.

I will say, I have a 2 cavity buckshot mold and it sucks. It takes a long time to cast enough #1 buckshot to load a batch of 3" shells.
I have to upgrade that.

 

[HowieG]

It may have been my post that your referring to regarding self sufficiency. This thread is about casting bullets. Not cases, primers or powder. Certainly you will need those too but I meant self sufficiency in the way that your not relying on what’s available on the shelf, not some sort of end of the world scenario.

Yeah, I was just running down that path a little further. Could have gone to loin cloth and spear, but I stopped myself.

 

[HowieG]

I've never cast any slugs, but I have started casting buckshot lately and the cost and availability of that is a huge plus when you do it yourself.

I will say, I have a 2 cavity buckshot mold and it sucks. It takes a long time to cast enough #1 buckshot to load a batch of 3" shells.
I have to upgrade that.

Man, you would need a forty cavity mold for that.

 

[brewer12345]

I am salaried so I don't count my time, heh.

Realistically, I cast for about 3 cents a pop for powder coated bullets. Buying them before the panic was 10 to 20 cents each and I can cast anything I want. For black powder, it is very nice to be able to cast things I cannot buy, like a 54 cal conical or minie. How many bullets does it take to pay for my equipment? Dunno, but I am past it. I like casting, so it is all a plus. Now that you can hardly buy stuff, it is priceless.

I can cast a thousand in an afternoon. They still need to be lubed and sized. I often powder coat while watching TV.

 

[.38 Special]

I don't think fishing or shooting or playing golf or staying up at night taking pictures of the cosmos is goofing off. And I don't think casting bullets is goofing off either. Actually, I don't think goofing off is goofing off. It's for our mental health. But, there are only 24 hours in day and we have to sleep sometime. Plus naps. And a good glass of whiskey on the porch. Wait, that's for mental health too.......especially porch time.

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I use "goofing off" in the very best sense. It's the stuff of the soul that is completely necessary, and I agree with you.

Except for golf. That game is just nuts.

 

[.38 Special]

I've never cast any slugs, but I have started casting buckshot lately and the cost and availability of that is a huge plus when you do it yourself.

I will say, I have a 2 cavity buckshot mold and it sucks. It takes a long time to cast enough #1 buckshot to load a batch of 3" shells.
I have to upgrade that.

I cast 12 gauge slugs, and yeah, that's definitely a money saver. I'm honestly not quite sure why slug loads cost so much, when handloaded slug shells don't really cost any more than handloaded shotshells.

I do occasionally cast buckshot with a (IIRC) 30-hole Lee mold. I really dislike it, as the mold has to be obscenely hot to fully fill, and then you get to wreck your fingers pulling each piece of shot off of its sprue. (I know Lee says to just leave the pieces connected in threes, but in my experience that makes for truly awful patterns). Buckshot prices haven't yet gone high enough for me to spend much time casting it.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I haven't gotten into reloading yet, but I hope to some day.

When you factor in the time, you'll find out that the expense will dramatically increase. The questions, then, become:

1. How much is your time worth.
2. How much time does it take to produce your product.

"Worth" is relative and is based on a lot of things. For example, one could use your regular hourly wage as an indicator of how much your time is worth.

Let's say, for example, that my hourly wage works out to $60/hr as an engineer. That's a dollar a minute.

How much is my time worth when making ammunition? Let's only figure time and assume that the cost of material is already a done deal (you have lots of stock on hand which you've built up.)

Well, I can buy a bulk case of 9mm 115 gr FMJ Blazer for $200 right now. That works out to $10/box for 50 rounds. Using this, I could say "if I can produce 50 rounds of ammunition every 10 minutes, then this is worth my time" because it would take me 10 minutes to earn the $10 I would need to simply buy that box. At 10 minutes per box, it would require me 200 minutes, or 3 hours and 20 minutes to generate a case of 1,000 rounds that I could buy for $200.

So, that's one way.

But the relative worth of your time is not just based on what your time is worth as an engineer. If you have to spend 3 hours and 20 minutes to make that case of ammunition, you now have 3 hours and 20 minutes less time to do things like the yardwork that needs to be done, go on that fishing trip, play games with your kids, knock boots with your wife, garage time to change the brakes on your car, etc.

So worth is always a balance of things you value.

If you are on a tight budget, then perhaps saving that $200 in cash means putting in the time to make that ammunition to support your shooting hobbies is worth it, because the OTHER things you need that money for mean more. Like paying rent, keeping the electricity on, or saving up for your 10th anniversary trip with your wife.

In this case, you judge that the time it takes to save that $200 is well worth the effort.

So this isn't strictly a matter of "savings"...it's a balance of "worth", and that's not always strictly a matter of dollar signs. Worth is based on a lot of things...how much your time is valued, the things you learn from the things you do, the enjoyment you get out of doing something, the sense of pride one has for a job well done, the value another places in something that you personally had a hand in creating, etc. Ask any woman, for example, what she values more: A bouquet of flowers you bought at the grocery store floral section, or a bouquet of flowers that were hand picked and arranged in a vase someone took the time to find/make based on colors/patterns she likes.

The same principles apply here.

We do this with most everything we do. So I can't imagine this would be any different.

 

[WestKentucky]

Me too, and what is shown on paper looks good, in reality I work enough extra time that it is significantly less and realistically the job I do probably is worth more than I get. Some days you eat the dog, some days the dog eats you.

Anyways if it’s a 3 hour job to make 1000 bullets as was mentioned above and I count my labor in the mix, now I’m paying myself essentially 85 bucks per thousand bullets that only costs $100 anyways. Yeah it’s something to do and feel good about but the deeper I get into the thoughts on it, the less it makes sense. I could sink a thousand dollars into casting, spend a week using up the lead, and would easily have been better off just spending the thousand dollars on buying the bullets and going to the lake with the kids. That’s kinda where I’m at with it, I want to do what is more sensible... I think. Most sensible is to sell off all the stuff I don’t use much and we all know how well that goes over with anybody who spends much time on here.

 

[HowieG]

I use "goofing off" in the very best sense. It's the stuff of the soul that is completely necessary, and I agree with you.

Except for golf. That game is just nuts.

I combine watching golf tournaments with naps. That low quiet drone knocks me out good.

 

[243winxb]

Free wheel weights is a must.

Or free lead from an indoor range. But requires your time to reclaim from sand pit.

Add cost of linotype.

If you have to buy WW or scrap lead, forget casting.

The Lee Key Drive slug requires pure lead, that i had to buy.

Photos - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/albums/casting-bullets.310/

 

[JT-AR-MG42]

Never have thought of casting in terms of saving money.
I cast -showing my age here I guess- because most of the bullets I cast are either very expensive (if available)
and/or were not being made on a commercial basis when I started using them.

I could probably shop around and find a commercial caster turning out 30/1 bullets in sizes between .32 and .577, but I am poor
and besides, I want the bullets to be exactly like the ones I cast, not just pretty close to the same style or weight.

If you can afford store bought and can find what works for you all the better.

JT

 

[WeekendReloader]

The real decision is based on two questions:
#1 Do you want to try casting as a part of the hobby.
#2 Do you want to spend the time required to participate in casting.

If you would rather be doing something else, go do that. Life is short. People change interests all the time. My basement is full of leftover items from previous hobbies and endeavors I haven't sold or trashed yet.

 

[FROGO207]

When supplies are good and prices are low I buy my lead bullets. I did however buy the tooling and supplies to make and gas check my own bullets and used them to make my own. Now if I can't buy bullets in a timely manner or if they get shut down in the future, making my own---priceless!

 

[HowieG]

Never have thought of casting in terms of saving money.
I cast -showing my age here I guess- because most of the bullets I cast are either very expensive (if available)
and/or were not being made on a commercial basis when I started using them.

I could probably shop around and find a commercial caster turning out 30/1 bullets in sizes between .32 and .577, but I am poor
and besides, I want the bullets to be exactly like the ones I cast, not just pretty close to the same style or weight.

If you can afford store bought and can find what works for you all the better.

JT[/QUOTE

I would imagine your equipment is amortized itself out. Things are more expensive to start now.

 

[FROGO207]

^^^^ You could use the same argument to someone starting to reload today but depending on ones reason it might make sense to jump in.

 

[AJC1]

You guys calculated time exactly the opposite of me. Reloading is a hobby and something I enjoy doing. I also enjoy casting. If I save money while doing a hobby that's a huge win. Every other hobby I have costs a ton of money to do. So when one goes sky diving do they calculate how much time it takes and add that to the total cost of the event. Do you charge your wife for the value of the time you spend with her.

 

[frankmako]

casting is like reloading. you never count your time into the factor. casting was the way to go until they starting making wheel weights out of zinc and steel. now days if you get a 5 gallon bucket of wheel weights you are lucky to get 1/4 in lead wheel weights.

 

[EMC45]

Casting and reloading for me is therapeutic to a degree. Not sure if that was mentioned before. I like the rhythm of whacking sprue plates and dumping hot fresh bullets. As the mound of fresh cast grows it comforts me.

Also when I'm pulling the handle of my press and loaded rounds pile up I smile. Even if I still load on a single stage.....

 

[lightman]

If you are looking at casting to save money, well good luck with that. Sure, you will eventually get your equipment paid for and your bullet cost will be pretty low. Much the same as reloading. Casting bullets is much the same as a fisherman wanting to tie flys. It just another aspect of the hobby that you can enjoy. But if you feel like you need to add your labor in you may as well forget it. I did see one red flag in your original post and that was the word "Ebay". Thats about the worst possible place to buy lead. Just about everything that I have looked at is grossly overpriced. And I look often! If the lead sells for a decent price you better look out for the shipping. You would be much better buying from the knowledgeable people over on the Cast Boolits Site. Yeah, I'm a member but I don't sell lead!

But if you skip figuring in your labor you will eventually get your equipment paid off. Your choice in bullets will make a big difference. Free or cheap lead is still out there. But you have to look for it and it requires work and time. Casting is not for everyone.

I hope I did not come across as being snarky!