eForm 1 and CLEO

[d31tc]

I filled out my online eForm 1 and entered the info for the CLEO. I entered the local police chief as opposed to the county sheriff. After hitting submit, I printed the CLEO copy and went to drop it off at the city police department. The lady behind the glass looked at it funny and said the county sheriff takes these and handed it back to me. I told her I certified on the eForm 1 that I would deliver it to the CLEO stated on the form and handed it back to her. She said she would make sure the chief of police would get it. Does it matter? Did I screw up?

 

[Demi-human]

Does it matter? Did I screw up?

Yes. She even told you so.

The lady behind the glass looked at it funny and said the county sheriff takes these and handed it back to me.

But fear not.
The ATF is very helpful and will have you amend the forms and file them with the appropriate office. I have even heard it like they hold that form and get it finished, you don’t start again at the back of the line.

Once I had filled a form out, then an election changed the sheriff just before Ih was waiting for approval. It still went through. I doubt they double check every detail on every form. But we need to be certain we follow everything to the letter.

So, cross your fingers, it may go through, if it doesn’t you can amend and resubmit. No worries. And next time send it to the sheriff.

(Seriously, I thought I could only ever need one!)

 

[d31tc]

When I was filling out the form, it says the CLEO is considered to be the Chief of Police; the Sheriff; the Head of the State Police; or a State or local district attorney or prosecutor. I went with option 1 listed so I was surprised when they said they don’t do that. Does the ATF have a list of the CLEO for a local jurisdiction? I’m in City limits, so I’m definitely in the Chief of Police’s jurisdiction.

I have a suppressor on my list, so it won’t be my last one, so this is a good lesson. Hopefully this application is not delayed, or worse. I submitted under the brace ruling, for which the deadline ends on May 31, if I’m not mistaken.

ETA: Since my form I submitted had me certify, or something to that effect, that I would submit a completed copy to the CLEO indicated on the form, I didn't feel I could NOT submit it to the chief of police. That's why I left it at the police station instead of taking it to the sheriff's department. I suppose I could have made an additional copy and delivered it to the sheriff's department as well, but after following up with the police department, I don't think that is necessary. I'll wait patiently for any response from the ATF, unless there is anything I can or should do prior to receiving any response?

 

[d31tc]

So I followed up with the city police. They forwarded my CLEO copies to the county sheriff, so I guess they got to where they need to get, at least in my jurisdiction. So I dropped it off where I said I would, and the forms got to where they said it should .

 

[21H40]

Why the sheriff and not the city police? I've heard that is always goes to the sheriff, but I don't understand why.

 

[d31tc]

Why the sheriff and not the city police? I've heard that is always goes to the sheriff, but I don't understand why.

I hadn't heard that. In the instructions, it lists CLEO "options" with an "or". So maybe options isn't the right word. Anyhow, maybe I should have called and asked around given the list of "options".

Surely I must meet the intent on the application, considering both the chief of police AND the sheriff have now been notified.

 

[dogtown tom]

I filled out my online eForm 1 and entered the info for the CLEO. I entered the local police chief as opposed to the county sheriff.

Which is perfectly fine.

After hitting submit, I printed the CLEO copy and went to drop it off at the city police department. The lady behind the glass looked at it funny and said the county sheriff takes these and handed it back to me.

You met the requirement to notify. You are compliant with the law.

I told her I certified on the eForm 1 that I would deliver it to the CLEO stated on the form and handed it back to her. She said she would make sure the chief of police would get it. Does it matter? Did I screw up?

Nope.

 

[dogtown tom]

Yes. She even told you so.

OP didn't screw up.....she was wrong.

From the Form 1 instructions:https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/f...-and-register-firearm-atf-form-53201/download

Law Enforcement Notification. The applicant must provide a copy of the Form 1 to the Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) who has jurisdiction over the area of the applicant’s address shown in item 3b of the Form 1. In addition, if the applicant is other than an individual, a copy of the Form 5320.23, National Firearms Act (NFA) Responsible Person Questionnaire, for each Responsible Person must be provided to their respective Chief Law Enforcement Officer. The Chief Law Enforcement Officer is considered to be the Chief of Police; the Sheriff; the Head of the State Police; or a State or local district attorney or prosecutor.

And next time send it to the sheriff.

There is a reason that Silencer Shop who processes more NFA forms than anyone does not send the notification to a local CLEO. Few want their local PD or Sheriff knowing what guns they have. Send it to your State AG.

 

[dogtown tom]

Why the sheriff and not the city police? I've heard that is always goes to the sheriff, but I don't understand why.

Read the instructions on the Form 1 or Form 4.

 

[d31tc]

You met the requirement to notify. You are compliant with the law.

Thanks dogtown, good to know.

 

[Demi-human]

Send it to your State AG.

Yikes! I’m from Michigan I’ll take the sheriff! He doesn’t try to shut off the propane when it’s winter!

Thank you for the clarification though. Dang, thought I had that one!

 

[d31tc]

Well, here's the next issue - fingerprints. I submitted my eForm 1 on April 20th. I sent the fingerprint cards certified mail and dropped them off at the local post office in the morning of April 22. They took 17 hours to arrive at the first distribution center (50miles away from our post office) and spent 9 hours there before departing on the 24th. They spent 2 days in transit to get to the distribution center in Harrisburg, PA. They spent 12 hours there before departing on the 26th and spent 2 days traveling to the distribution center in - wait for it - Pensacola, FL. From Harrisburg to Pensacola is 951 miles. From Harrisburg to Martinsburg, WV, their required final destination, is 96 miles. Fingerprints, you were so close. Were you looking to visit the beach before getting stuck away in a file cabinet?

When they say, "Within 10 business days of submission of the referenced eForm application, the applicant must submit two completed fingerprint cards for each Responsible person listed below to the ATF address shown above.", do they mean postmarked within 10 business days? Or do they mean the ATF at Martinsburg, WV must have received them within 10 business days?

If it's 10 business days to get to Martinsburg, my fingerprints have 5 calendar days to get off the beach and back up to Martinsburg.

I know, I know. I shouldn't have procrastinated.

 

[Soonerpesek]

do they mean postmarked within 10 business days

I would agree with this statement, as no one can predict the mail service and unexpected delays….

 

[tomtomgt356]

Well, here's the next issue - fingerprints. I submitted my eForm 1 on April 20th. I sent the fingerprint cards certified mail and dropped them off at the local post office in the morning of April 22. They took 17 hours to arrive at the first distribution center (50miles away from our post office) and spent 9 hours there before departing on the 24th. They spent 2 days in transit to get to the distribution center in Harrisburg, PA. They spent 12 hours there before departing on the 26th and spent 2 days traveling to the distribution center in - wait for it - Pensacola, FL. From Harrisburg to Pensacola is 951 miles. From Harrisburg to Martinsburg, WV, their required final destination, is 96 miles. Fingerprints, you were so close. Were you looking to visit the beach before getting stuck away in a file cabinet?

When they say, "Within 10 business days of submission of the referenced eForm application, the applicant must submit two completed fingerprint cards for each Responsible person listed below to the ATF address shown above.", do they mean postmarked within 10 business days? Or do they mean the ATF at Martinsburg, WV must have received them within 10 business days?

If it's 10 business days to get to Martinsburg, my fingerprints have 5 calendar days to get off the beach and back up to Martinsburg.

I know, I know. I shouldn't have procrastinated.

I don't know the official answer, but only my experience. When I sent mine in on a form 1, I accidentally sent it to the wrong location. By the time they got sent back to me and I resent to the correct address, it was almost a month after submitting. They still approved my form 1, just took a little longer than normal.

 

[Elkins45]

Is there a required time frame for the notification to take place? What if I wait until after my stamp is approved before I notify my CLEO?

 

[dogtown tom]

Is there a required time frame for the notification to take place?

You notify the CLEO at the same time you send in your application.

What if I wait until after my stamp is approved before I notify my CLEO?

You would not be in compliance with federal law.

 

[d31tc]

I don't know the official answer, but only my experience. When I sent mine in on a form 1, I accidentally sent it to the wrong location. By the time they got sent back to me and I resent to the correct address, it was almost a month after submitting. They still approved my form 1, just took a little longer than normal.

Good to know. Yesterday, my prints left Pensacola, I’m assuming well tanned, and are on the way to somewhere unknown (I’m guessing back to the distribution center in Harrisburg?)

 

[Elkins45]

You notify the CLEO at the same time you send in your application.



You would not be in compliance with federal law.

I suppose I phrased my question poorly. What I should probably have asked is: Is there a statutory elaboration as to what constitutes “at the same time”? Within the same day? Same week? Same month?

 

[d31tc]

I suppose I phrased my question poorly. What I should probably have asked is: Is there a statutory elaboration as to what constitutes “at the same time”? Within the same day? Same week? Same month?

Good question.

On the eForm it says, "Under penalties imposed by 18 U.S.C., § 924 and 26 U.S.C. § 5861, I certify that, upon submission of this from to ATF, a completed copy of this form will be directed to the CLEO shown in item 10, that the statements, as applicable, contained in this certification, and any attached documents in support thereof, are true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief."

In the ATF FAQ response to a question about if the CLEO is required to sign, one paragraph says, "Prior to submission of the application to the Director, all applicants/transferees and responsible persons shall forward a completed copy of ATF Form 1 or ATF Form 4, or a completed copy of Form 5320.23, respectively, to the chief law enforcement officer of the locality in which the applicant or responsible person is located. "

27 CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) § 479.62 - Application to make, says: "(c) Notification of chief law enforcement officer. Prior to the submission of the application to the Director, all applicants and responsible persons shall forward a completed copy of Form 1 or a completed copy of Form 5320.23, respectively, to the chief law enforcement officer of the locality in which the applicant or responsible person is located."

The eForm didn't really have a "completed form" until AFTER I submitted, so I took the term "upon submission" to mean "ricky tick". Not sure if the timeframe of "ricky tick" has been defined by case law or statute but I did it as soon as I possibly could, which was within 1 day.

 

[dogtown tom]

I suppose I phrased my question poorly. What I should probably have asked is: Is there a statutory elaboration as to what constitutes “at the same time”? Within the same day? Same week? Same month?

If it were to come to the point that ATF/DOJ is concerned about whether you sent your CLEO notice in a timely matter you are already screwed.

 

[d31tc]

If it were to come to the point that ATF/DOJ is concerned about whether you sent your CLEO notice in a timely matter you are already screwed.

Yeah, I agree. My concern is to not hit any road blocks that prevent approval of my Form 1 since the brace rule has a deadline. I believe the deadline is for submitting the form, not approval, but I don’t want to give the ATF a reason for denial. From what I’m reading here, it sounds like they will work with the submitter to clarify any technicalities.

 

[dogtown tom]

Yeah, I agree. My concern is to not hit any road blocks that prevent approval of my Form 1 since the brace rule has a deadline. I believe the deadline is for submitting the form, not approval, but I don’t want to give the ATF a reason for denial. From what I’m reading here, it sounds like they will work with the submitter to clarify any technicalities.

Unlike the paper Form 1/4, the eForms are not "correctable", meaning you make a mistake, error or simply forget something and your eForm is denied. And then you reapply.

But ATF doesn't check with your CLEO to see if they received the copy from your eForm submission. They just flat out don't have the staff.

 

[Elkins45]

Unlike the paper Form 1/4, the eForms are not "correctable", meaning you make a mistake, error or simply forget something and your eForm is denied. And then you reapply.

When did that change? In 13 or 14 when the site was still fairly unstable I tried submitting a SBR Form 1 five or six times and it just kept crashing. As luck would have it when I finally did submit after having filled it out over and over I forgot to fill in the reason. An examiner’s assistant actually called me and had me redo the form and pushed the application back thru the line. While this was I suppose technically a reapplication it was an expedited one.

 

[dogtown tom]

When did that change?

In December 2021 with the implementation of eForm 4's.

The eForms system hat was in use prior to December 2021 allowed corrections. The new system does not.

 

[d31tc]

Good to know. Yesterday, my prints left Pensacola, I’m assuming well tanned, and are on the way to somewhere unknown (I’m guessing back to the distribution center in Harrisburg?)

Well, today my prints arrived back in Harrisburg after departing Harrisburg on April 26 for their trip to Pensacola. They decided to take the scenic route back via Charleston, WV. Where are they off to this time, boys and girls? Let’s give the wheel a spin!

ETA: I’ll definitely find out about postmarked vs delivered and keep everyone - posted.