Egyptian Helwan Beretta 951 Clone FTF

[rswartsell]

I have an Egyptian Helwan Brigadeer that has feed problems with both magazines, If 5 or less rounds are loaded in the mags, then it functions well and is also pretty accurate. If more than 5 rounds are loaded in the 8 round capacity mags then it will not feed, the stack seems to bind up.

Yes, I know this is not a very valuable piece, it is at least the military issue and not a commercial manufacture.

If you were me what would you try to get this thing running?

 

[PT1911]

sounds like just a mag problem... have you disassembled and cleaned the mag? it may be as simple as a burr in the lower portion of the mag body. I wouldnt say it is a weak spring as it would be the bottom rounds not the top that would be the issue.

 

[Claymore1500]

I have one of those guns, the civilian model, although I have not had a problem with it in several hundred rounds, I might be tempted to check into a new mag to see if the problem persists.

If it does then I would check the grip screws to make sure they are not going in too deep and putting pressure on the side of the mag.

Just out of curiosity, Military Vs. civilian, what is the persieved difference? they are both made on the same machinery, by the same crew, i don't believe the specs. change due to it's end user direction.

 

[justashooter in pa]

comercial guns made for export by military production factories are sometimes assembled with parts that have been rejected for non-conformities that do not significantly affect "form, fit, and function". these "second quality" parts are usually durable and adequate to the task, but one man's definition of "significant" may not agree with another's. case in point, the chinese tokarevs we see in 9mm that are made from leftover stuff that failed mil std combined with new parts that do not meet even comercial standards.

 

[rswartsell]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I'll try and report. I have read blog reports that some of the commercial production had a major problem with heat treating somewhere in the run and major problems hae been reported. Sorry I don't know about specifics, just that commercial QC is suspect and the examples with heat treating problems are basically junk.

 

[Jim K]

I suspect the problem lies in the follower tipping. The 9mm P is not a straight case round, it is tapered. As the rounds are put in the magazine, the bottom round will sit at a greater and greater angle, and the follower must be made to take that into account.

Remove the magazine followers and then try working them in the magazine body without the spring. Also look to see if there are heavy wear marks on the front or back; it may be sufficient to just use some emery paper to smooth down those spots.

Jim

 

[rswartsell]

More on the heat treating issues in some commercial examples. It seems that the locking block is the first place the poorly treated metal breaks and it will do so in short order. Replacement parts are tough to get, but what would be the point? If you could keep up with locking blocks peening soon follows.

 

[gb6491]

...case in point, the chinese tokarevs we see in 9mm that are made from leftover stuff that failed mil std combined with new parts that do not meet even comercial standards.

Do you have a reference for that? I would be interested in reading whatever you have. The 213s I have handled/shot compared very favorably (at least as well made, reliable, and accurate) with any of the Type 54s I've handled.
Regards,
Greg

 

[rswartsell]

Update, I have dissembled the mags, cleaned them and used emory cloth to smooth any burrs. Some hope here, they were not especially dirty but there was some fairly minor rough walls lower on the mags, I also ordered a 10 round replacement mag (the last $ I'll sling at this for right now though).

I reassembled the mags and filled them to the 8 round capacity, did not note any follower tipping. With 1 mag though the last round didn't want to seat correctly. It insisted on sitting more forward that the rest of the stack and took some persuasion to seat the case head back to the rear wall of the mag. I suspect these mags are probably junk, but I'm going to the range tomorrow to see if my feeble efforts have produced any progress. I will also test with new mag when I get it (a MagPro, i think).