Electric gatling guns and hangfires?

[19-3Ben]

OK so I have what is probably a soooper dummy question but here we go.

On guns that use an electric motor to drive the barrels and work the action (Vulcan, Minigun etc...) the gun does not rely on a cartridge actually firing in order to cycle the action. So I would think it's possible that if a round does not fire, the unfired round is simply ejected out.
Now we are always cautious about hang fire and if the round doesn't ignite, we leave it in the gun and keep it pointed downrange for 30 seconds or whatever time we are comfortable with before ejecting.

Is there some protocol for dealing with hang fires from a gatling gun?

Or are they just used in circumstances where the empties would not fall at the shooter's feet? (i.e., falling free of a helicopter from a door gunner so if it did go off, it would do so in mid air or on the ground where it could not harm crew)

Just thinking about it and wondered what the deal is.

 

[rcmodel]

They would be ejected.

There no stopping one instantly when the barrels are turning 2,000 - 6,000 RPM.

In aerial applications, the dud would be ejected out the brass discharge chute along with the 50-100 other empty cases per second to fall free of the aircraft.

Secondly, hang-fires are so rare in modern military ammunition as to be almost unheard of.

Hang-fires are fairly common in century old surplus ammo.

New military ammo used in weapons of that type is so reliable, mis-fires & hang-fires just isn't way up there on the list of things to worry about.

rc

 

[19-3Ben]

Kinda what I figured but it was worth asking just out of curiosity. Thank you.

As always, remodel, you're a wealth of info.

 

[moxie]

I worked with the Vulcan primarily on the F-4C/D/E and the F-104G.

In the gas (yes!), RAT, and hydraulically operated SUU-16/SUU-23/M61A1 systems, any misfires, which are extremely rare, are (depending on the system) either dumped or brought back. Either way, live rounds end up ultimately being turned over to EOD for disposal. I don't recall more than a couple of cases of this happening. But when it does happen, it happens fast!

I never personally worked with miniguns. I think that any misfires just get dumped, as they don't have the integral contained feed systems that fighters need.

 

[Sam1911]

I will say that stoppages can be extremely dangerous with these guns due to the rather uncommon manual of arms. The 4 rules apply always, no matter what.

Close to home...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/61...al_Man_shot_in_head_with_Mini_Gun.html&page=1

 

[19-3Ben]

Ok, so to add another layer of depth to the question, back in the days when met laic cartridges had yet to be perfected, and gatling guns used an old timey crank, were hang fires a safety issue? Is it something anyone bothered to address?

 

[rcmodel]

Yes, it was more common.

But it wasn't addressed as far as I know.

You just kept cranking and the duds ejected out on the ground.

We had a few misfires shooting this 30-40 Krag one a few years ago.
The guns owner never even batted an eye.
Just picked them up and threw them in the brass bucket along with the empties.

This is the owner of the gun & his crew.


This is me shooting it.


This was the 100 yard target.




rc

 

[deadin]

I would assume that tearing off a case head (which wasn't all that uncommon with the early 45/70's) would pretty much bring everything to a halt.....

 

[moxie]

There were plenty of stoppages with the Vulcan, but not due to misfires. Various mechanical problems happen in a high speed system, especially in the feed chute.

And there was the rare inadvertent firing on the flightline. Can't blame those on mechanical problems. Fortunately never happened on my watch. The sound of a 20mm Vulcan firing is scary enough even when you expect it. But when you don't, that's one of the worst sounds in the world, I'm told. Sounds like the door slamming on an otherwise sterling career.

 

[rcmodel]

I would assume that tearing off a case head (which wasn't all that uncommon with the early 45/70's) would pretty much bring everything to a halt.....

Yes, a screeching halt.

We even had one or three on the 30-40 I posted above.
Tight headspace was not one of the Gatling Guns major strong points to start with.
And it didn't get any tighter after 125 years of use!

But the gun crew we were firing with seemed quite practiced with using a broken case extractor and a ram rod to get them out real quick.

It really didn't slow them down much more the reloading another stick of ammo.

And again, nothing bad happened, and nobody batted an eye.

PS: Come to think of it, I think they just pulled the stuck round and it brought the broken case out with it.
If it didn't they put the broken case extractor in it, closed the breech block, and cranked it around again until it ejected the case extractor & broken case the next time around?

But it's been 12 years and my memory is fading on the exact details of clearing one.
But again, it was no big deal to the gun crew.

rc

 

[Jim Watson]

They said the Dardick - TRW HIVAP rotary MG firing 30000 rpm (actually 10000 shots, each Tround with three fletchettes) was failure resistant. That a misfire would be ejected, a jam would simply be cut in two and ejected along with the empties.