Elk Cartridges: Some observations

[elktrout]

There may not be a more provocative question in the U.S. than this one: What is the best elk cartridge?

There are almost as many opinions on the matter as there are centerfire cartridges. After all, we have all seen/heard recommendations spanning the cartridge line-up from .243 Winchester to 458 Winchester Magnum. Probably, no other North American animal has been harvested with as wide a variety of rifle chamberings as an elk.

Elk amaze us. They are herd animals, here today and gone tomorrow, with no seemingly distinct patterns. They are extremely hardy and have an incredible ability to take hits and keep on going. In short, they are magnificent and truly intrigue us. In addition, elk meat is some of finest in the world; and, when you harvest one, you get a good load of meat.

Background:
I lived in the Rocky Mountain west for 27 years up to 2022. An acquaintance of mine has killed more than 40 elk in his lifetime with rifles from the .243 Winchester to the .375 H&H. I once helped him pull out a nice bull that he killed at 390 yards with a straight-on chest shot. One shot. Dead elk. He was the best shot, out to 500 yards, that I have ever known. Of course, it helped that he had guided for 10 years and had the opportunity to observe numerous successful elk kills beyond his 40+.

In addition, I conversed with many successful elk hunters, because living there makes your path cross with theirs more often than if you live elsewhere. Hunt details were always fascinating and never the same as any other, even if the same hunter was involved. However, a common theme developed from these contacts/acquaintances in regards to elk cartridges. Here are my points about the subject of this post.

Points to consider:

1. You Tubers and other bloggers often post their opinions based on nothing more than paper ballistics, often comparing one cartridge to another or possibly a third. Many of these posts lack corroboration from actual hunting. So, when they tell us that a 6.5 whatever-it-is will kill elk as reliably as 30-06, it is opinion and opinion only.

2. Guides and outfitters live in the real world of elk hunting and successful harvesting of these animals. They know what works and what does not. If you want some truly "expert" advise on cartridge selection, ask them, not some blogger.

3. Why are so many gun writers, hunters, You Tubers, and bloggers enamored with the latest cartridge designs, when in reality the ballistics vary little from well proven cartridges that pre-date them by many years? They are entitled to their opinions, of course, but why are they embracing these new arrivals as if they are a stroke of genius? Is it not interesting that their love affair with the new cartridge so often requires them to compare the newbie to an old stand-by, such as the 270 Winchester for 30-06?

4. What actually works to consistently kill elk, given reasonable range and proper shot placement? You will hear most often from experienced, successful elk hunters that cartridges between the .270 Winchester and .338 Winchester magnum have the best record for harvesting elk.

5. One last but pertinent point. The voice of experience is hard to rebut. My acquaintance mentioned earlier, former guide and killer of 40+ elk, killed most of his elk, including big bulls, with a 300 Win Mag shooting old-fashioned, out-dated, boring 180 Nosler Partitions. He told me that no elk ever got away when he hit them solidly with the first shot.

What do I have? A 30-06, a 7mm Wby Mag, and a 300 WSM. My favorite, for many reasons, is my 300 WSM. I have yet to get a shot with it on elk, but my one son used it to shoot a monster bull length-wise, front to rear, penetrating the entire animal with a 180 Nosler Accubond. The bull netted 350 pounds of boned-out meat.

Sorry for the length of this post. I watch You Tube and enjoy the good material on it, but some recent stupid posts prompted me to give this forum my insights.

In short, if a cartridge is a ballistic minimum of the venerable 270 with stout 130 grainers, it will work on elk with proper shot placement. If you have a 270 or 30-06 or better, you do not NEED some new fangled media thriller to kill elk reliably.

Good hunting.

 

[45/30-06OKIE]

There may not be a more provocative question in the U.S. than this one: What is the best elk cartridge?

There are almost as many opinions on the matter as there are centerfire cartridges. After all, we have all seen/heard recommendations spanning the cartridge line-up from .243 Winchester to 458 Winchester Magnum. Probably, no other North American animal has been harvested with as wide a variety of rifle chamberings as an elk.

Elk amaze us. They are herd animals, here today and gone tomorrow, with no seemingly distinct patterns. They are extremely hardy and have an incredible ability to take hits and keep on going. In short, they are magnificent and truly intrigue us. In addition, elk meat is some of finest in the world; and, when you harvest one, you get a good load of meat.

Background:
I lived in the Rocky Mountain west for 27 years up to 2022. An acquaintance of mine has killed more than 40 elk in his lifetime with rifles from the .243 Winchester to the .375 H&H. I once helped him pull out a nice bull that he killed at 390 yards with a straight-on chest shot. One shot. Dead elk. He was the best shot, out to 500 yards, that I have ever known. Of course, it helped that he had guided for 10 years and had the opportunity to observe numerous successful elk kills beyond his 40+.

In addition, I conversed with many successful elk hunters, because living there makes your path cross with theirs more often than if you live elsewhere. Hunt details were always fascinating and never the same as any other, even if the same hunter was involved. However, a common theme developed from these contacts/acquaintances in regards to elk cartridges. Here are my points about the subject of this post.

Points to consider:

1. You Tubers and other bloggers often post their opinions based on nothing more than paper ballistics, often comparing one cartridge to another or possibly a third. Many of these posts lack corroboration from actual hunting. So, when they tell us that a 6.5 whatever-it-is will kill elk as reliably as 30-06, it is opinion and opinion only.

2. Guides and outfitters live in the real world of elk hunting and successful harvesting of these animals. They know what works and what does not. If you want some truly "expert" advise on cartridge selection, ask them, not some blogger.

3. Why are so many gun writers, hunters, You Tubers, and bloggers enamored with the latest cartridge designs, when in reality the ballistics vary little from well proven cartridges that pre-date them by many years? They are entitled to their opinions, of course, but why are they embracing these new arrivals as if they are a stroke of genius? Is it not interesting that their love affair with the new cartridge so often requires them to compare the newbie to an old stand-by, such as the 270 Winchester for 30-06?

4. What actually works to consistently kill elk, given reasonable range and proper shot placement? You will hear most often from experienced, successful elk hunters that cartridges between the .270 Winchester and .338 Winchester magnum have the best record for harvesting elk.

5. One last but pertinent point. The voice of experience is hard to rebut. My acquaintance mentioned earlier, former guide and killer of 40+ elk, killed most of his elk, including big bulls, with a 300 Win Mag shooting old-fashioned, out-dated, boring 180 Nosler Partitions. He told me that no elk ever got away when he hit them solidly with the first shot.

What do I have? A 30-06, a 7mm Wby Mag, and a 300 WSM. My favorite, for many reasons, is my 300 WSM. I have yet to get a shot with it on elk, but my one son used it to shoot a monster bull length-wise, front to rear, penetrating the entire animal with a 180 Nosler Accubond. The bull netted 350 pounds of boned-out meat.

Sorry for the length of this post. I watch You Tube and enjoy the good material on it, but some recent stupid posts prompted me to give this forum my insights.

In short, if a cartridge is a ballistic minimum of the venerable 270 with stout 130 grainers, it will work on elk with proper shot placement. If you have a 270 or 30-06 or better, you do not NEED some new fangled media thriller to kill elk reliably.

Good hunting.

my cousin lives in the colorado rockies and uses a 300 PRC for elk.

 

[Gordon]

I have only killed four Elk in forty years of trying. Two were California Tule elk, the other two Roosevelts. I used a .300 Weatherby magnum with 180 grain factory loads on two : one at 150 yards and one at close to 300 yards. Both never went more than 200 yards and went down. The Tule elk were shot; one with a .375 H&H 270 grain Federal Premium load . I remember it was a Nosler Partition bullet and was 200+ yards and went down when hit , finished with a pistol to brain as I went up quick. The last Tule elk was in California unleaded ammo era eight years back and I used a .270 Winchester short Mag with 150 grain Barnes X bullet at just over 310 lasered yards ,from a bipod and the Elk ran 150 yards and piled up on the run with a blown up heart. I had used the.270 WSM in Africa earlier 2000s and it killed with one shot all plains game I shot with it so had confidence it would work on Elk.
My Son now has the old Sauer made .300 Weatherby as his elk rifle in Oregon and got one at 250 yards a couple years ago one shot but it went a few hundred yards and he got close and gave it another in skull. Still using Weatherby 180 grain factory ammo. Next time I hunt with him next year I will use my .375 H&H which is actually .375 Weatberby, Brown Precision Remington Stainless 700 again with 270 Trophy Bear Claws for Oregon Roosevelt. For me Elk hunts have been too expensive to fool around with the smaller bores.

 

[jmr40]

Modern bullets, rifles, and optics have changed the rules. Some guys are still living in the past.

The thing that most hunters overlook is that hunters and hunting rifles are no longer the driving force behind which rifles are manufactured and sold. Most shooters today aren't primarily hunters, and they have no interest in buying a hunting rifle in 30-06 or 270. They want a light target rifle that they can also hunt with. A round like the 6.5CM is a much better target round than traditional hunting cartridges yet is still more than acceptable for most hunting.

If they do hunt it is perfectly logical for them to want to use the same rifles they shoot at the range because those are the ones, they have the most confidence in. They aren't buying new-fangled rifles to elk hunt with. They are buying them to shoot paper and steel at long range year-round and then using the same rifles to hunt with.

Don't sell the 6.5's short on performance. A 140 gr 6.5CM will be a little slower than a 140 gr 270 at the muzzle, but as range increases the 6.5 steadily catches up and somewhere beyond 200 yards they are at roughly the same speed out to any practical hunting ranges. The 6.5 will penetrate deeper and is only .013" smaller in diameter. That's 1/4 the thickness of a dime. In short anything a 270 does for hunting, a 6.5CM will do. And that's not just theory. There have been truckloads of elk killed with the 6.5's in recent years.

Killing game animals isn't rocket science. Use a bullet that has enough mass and that is tough enough to penetrate to the lungs and it will die. If you get some bullet expansion they die quicker, get a pass through and you have a better blood trail. There are lots of ways to make that happen. The bullet you choose is far more important than the caliber or headstamp.

The diameter of the bullet isn't all that important except to increase bullet mass. You can only go so heavy with a 24 or 25 caliber (115-120 gr) and IMO that is borderline for penetration on game larger than deer. If you go up to 26 caliber, you can get 140-160 gr bullets. That is where I'd draw the line on acceptable.

 

[irishlad]

My buddy is an elk guide and he always says he's more worried how they shoot than what they shoot.

 

[Chuck R.]

Don't sell the 6.5's short on performance. A 140 gr 6.5CM will be a little slower than a 140 gr 270 at the muzzle, but as range increases the 6.5 steadily catches up and somewhere beyond 200 yards they are at roughly the same speed out to any practical hunting ranges. The 6.5 will penetrate deeper and is only .013" smaller in diameter. That's 1/4 the thickness of a dime. In short anything a 270 does for hunting, a 6.5CM will do. And that's not just theory. There have been truckloads of elk killed with the 6.5's in recent years.

Just to set the record straight (again) since you seem to come up with your own ballistics.. the .270 Win maintains a velocity advantage to well beyond 200 yards, well past 500 yards in fact.

200 FPS isn't a "little slower"

6.5 Creedmoor Versus 270 Winchester — Ron Spomer Outdoors

In a 6.5 Creedmoor versus 270 Winchester ballistic competition, which wins? Drop, drift, retained energy, velocity, and recoil are compared.

www.ronspomeroutdoors.com

I've included ranges to ridiculous distances for hunting (in my opinion) to clearly show how the superior Ballistic Coefficient of the 6.5 Creedmoor bullet enables it to begin catching up to the velocity of the 270 Winchester bullet. The Winchester's 250 fps velocity advantage at the muzzle has been reduced to just 54 fps at 800 yards. Note that, even though the .277" bullet leaves the muzzle with 497 foot-pounds more energy than the 6.5 Creedmoor, the superior aerodynamic shape of the .264" bullet enables it to conserve more energy. By 800 yards the 6.5 Creedmoor has cut the 270 Winchester's energy advantage to just 78 f-p. I don't think any struck game animal would notice the difference, but in the 6.5 Creedmoor versus 270 Winchester velocity and energy races, the Winchester still wins.

25-06 vs 6.5 Creedmoor vs 270: The Results Might Surprise You

Here's what you need to know about the pros and cons of the 25-06 vs 6.5 Creedmoor vs 270 Win so you can make an informed decision. The better choice is

thebiggamehuntingblog.com

The 6.5 Creedmoor: How it Compares to Other Rifle Cartridges

Learn how the 6.5 Creedmoor compares to the 6.5 PRC, .308 Win, and other rifle calibers in terms of ballistics, terminal performance, and recoil.

blog.gritrsports.com

Long-Range Performance. The .270 Winchester shows a flatter trajectory than the 6.5 Creedmoor and retains more energy downrange. However, while the .270 Winchester outperforms the 6.5 Creedmoor in terms of velocity and energy beyond 500 yards, its advantage diminishes from an initial 515 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle to just 189 ft-lbs of energy at this distance. Although the 6.5 Creedmoor’s superior ballistic coefficient gives a slight advantage over the .270 Winchester in terms of wind drift, the difference is minimal – at 500 yards, the .270 Winchester experiences only an additional 0.5″ of wind drift. Surprisingly, the old .270 Win also drops considerably less than the 6.5 CM – at 800 yards, the difference in bullet drop is 17 inches.

As my dad was fond of saying, there's no replacement for displacement. So now a 6.5C isn't catching a .270 Win until well after average game shooting distances.

The 6.5C is a great cartridge, but it's not magic.

 

[tmd16556]

The 6.5 can do it, but you get more dependent on bullet design and range. They’re more efficient than a 30-06 or 300 Win Mag, which is great for paper shooting. The 30 TC was probably ideal f you care about those things on paper. (The parent cartridge of the 6.5 CM.). I spent some time thinking of this and wound up with the 30-06. Then everyone I knew in Colorado moved to gunless places, so I’ve been less focused on having an Elk option. Still, the 30-06 is never a mistake, though it’s also rarely the perfect cartridge, if you’re willing to burn some powder, it’ll do most anything that is reasonable.

 

[elktrout]

The man I mentioned in the O.P. is a rarity. How many hunters do we personally know who have killed 40+ elk in a lifetime, many of which were good sized bulls? I am blessed to know him and have questioned him extensively. He adamantly believes that a 30 caliber 180 grain premium bullet is best. As he says, "it slams them".

Also, we hear little mention of something critical to the conversation. When you finally stand over a good sized elk lying dead on the ground and see the size of it, when you open one up and see the size of just the rib bones and thickness of the hide, not to mention the mass of internal organs, then you begin to sense that it really does take big, heavy bullets to effectively anchor these magnificent animals.

 

[Risky buisness]

My preference was a hot 180 from a, gasp, 30-06.
That worked well for years as did on occasion, a 30-30 Win. I have no interest in the lighter target round rifles for an elk rifle. While they can put one down, experience has taught me bigger is usually better. I finally settled on a German weatherby 300 and loaded it very similarly to the old 300 H&H with quality 180s it works perfectly.

 

[Chief TC]

The man I mentioned in the O.P. is a rarity. How many hunters do we personally know who have killed 40+ elk in a lifetime, many of which were good sized bulls? I am blessed to know him and have questioned him extensively. He adamantly believes that a 30 caliber 180 grain premium bullet is best. As he says, "it slams them".

Also, we hear little mention of something critical to the conversation. When you finally stand over a good sized elk lying dead on the ground and see the size of it, when you open one up and see the size of just the rib bones and thickness of the hide, not to mention the mass of internal organs, then you begin to sense that it really does take big, heavy bullets to effectively anchor these magnificent animals.

i'll take real world experience over opinion every time and twice on Sundays.

 

[Chief TC]

I use 30-06 180gr

 

[H&Hhunter]

I don’t know exactly how many elk I’ve killed but it’s over 30 for sure. Between my wife and I we’ve killed 5 in the last 3 years. In any case I can’t argue with anything the OP has said. If you hit them in the front 1/3 of the body they die pretty quick. They get a reputation of being tough if you don’t hit them in the lungs or forward. A three legged or gut shot elk will go a long way.

Where people get in trouble is elk tend to live in country that can lead to long shots. Without the proper skills and equipment people should not be taking long shots on elk but they do anyway. When they inevitably clip a leg off or smack them in the guts after a volley of long range fire they‘ll blame it on the inadequate caliber and the “ toughness” of the elk.

I can promise you as I’ve done it multiple times. A 165 Gr Accubond out of a .308 Win at 500 + yards will punch through and exit and kill an elk extremely efficiently and quickly if you hit them in the goods. A .300 Mag is a fantastic elk round as are lots of others.

 

[Chuck R.]

I'm no elk "expert" be any means, only killed 3, all bulls.

I've used:

8x68S with 200 grain NPs at 275yds
300WM with 180 NPs 185 yds (approx.)
.350 Rem Mag with 225 Sierra BTs at 225 yds

None of the above "slammed", all were double lunged, went a little ways and fell down. I put Three 225 Sierras into one as he didn't even register he'd been hit with the 1st shot (WA State Roosevelt). At the 2nd hit he started trotting. I led him a little too far on the 3rd and broke his neck, he then dropped like a rock. The 1st 2 shots were perfect double lung, with the bullets mushroomed under the hide on the off side. They could be covered with a coffee cup saucer.

As I'm so fond of saying.. the conditions also come into play; terrain, cover etc. when choosing a rifle combination. But with this I'd take a look at the hunt itself, because in my mind that also comes into effect:

a. Local/state resident, has the whole season
b. Public VS private ground (for public hunts which is how I killed my 3, I don't want to track and elk and give the other guy a chance to put a round in him)
c. Expense (shouldn't factor, but it does.)

The caliber I'd use IF I was local, on private ground, with an entire season, would be different that the caliber I'd use IF I was from out of state with limited time. The opportunity to wait for the perfect shot, might not come along. On all three of my hunts I saw plenty of elk, but legal bulls are a whole different story.

 

[Rodfac]

Elk are in my distant past now that I no longer have the legs, nor lungs for high altitude Colorado hunts. I was successful on 5 out of six hunts...up near Kenosha and down near the Spanish peaks in '67. I was carrying an '06 with 180s, on that occasion, borrowed from the Air Force Academy's recreation dept. I was on the high power rifle team there, & hunted with our coaches, Sgt's Reinharts, Hodge, and Fritz. From them, I learned tracking and the essentials of field dressing. Good men, all, now long gone.

Some time later, I found a .35 Whelen (.30-36 case opened up to take a true .35 caliber bullet) on a Remington 700 action, glass bedded it and found a good 225 gr Sierra Spitzer load. At 2550 fps, the combination had all the smack I needed and was still comfortable to shoot and carry. I never lost an animal hit with it: 3 elk and a half dozen or so white tail and mule deer over the years. But at 9+ lbs., it was more weight (and smack) than I needed back east here in KY so it's been retired for over 20 years now.

My last elk, a hefty cow, was a DRT at 250 paces...I was 54 at the time...and those high altitude saddles above Kenosha were a real chore for a flat lander. I packed out the first hind quarter, solo, for a half mile to the two-track and my Jeep at dusk and then found fresh bear tracks in the snow on my way back to the kill...that'll give you the willies, believe me. I'd left the Whelen in the Jeep to shed some weight for the pack out, and it was the last time I ever hunted without a back up revolver!

The .35 Whelen, now pretty much a reloader's caliber, was a good/great elk cartridge with enough weight and dia. in the bullet for use out to 250-275 yds or so. In other words, entirely useful for a majority of elk hunts.

Good thread, sorry for my diversion down memory lane...but elk and the beautiful, spectacular country they inhabit have always been my nirvana of hunting experiences. I wish for you younger guys, my time in up there in the high country, the smell of the aspens changing in early fall, and the sweet, spine tingling call of a bugling bull searching for a mate. Best regards, Rod

 

[DDDWho]

If I ever go Elk hunting I’ll take the only suitable rifle I own, a .280 Rem

 

[.45Coltguy]

I shot/killed exactly one bull elk. N/W Colorado, with my .270 Win using a Nosler 160gr Partition over a load of H4831sc. It's the only time I hunted elk. That .270 worked.

 

[H&Hhunter]

If I ever go Elk hunting I’ll take the only suitable rifle I own, a .280 Rem

My only caveat would be to use a controlled expansion bullet.

 

[JDGray]

For some reason, the airport manager at the time, thought a .270 Win would be a good whitetail caliber! It's all we got, and I must have dropped 20 deer with that elk gun! lol

 

[DDDWho]

My only caveat would be to use a controlled expansion bullet.

My neighbor, a reloader had over 100 pieces of 280 brass. If I’d buy the billets he’d load um up for ms. They’re all expanding, I had 3 boxes of store bought. Now I have a lifetime supply.

 

[entropy]

I've never elk hunted, but I can agree with elktrout's friend on the 180 Partition from a .300 Win. Mag. It's what my dad got his Moose with. Moose rarely 'drop and flop', and his took five in both lungs. Every one was a killing shot, but Dad had never shot anything that big before, and maybe the LE mentality might have been a factor, he kept firing until it dropped. I had 180 Partitions in my rifle also that morning, while drawing a bead on the cow his bull had just ditched when they saw us. Dad shot first, so my hunt was done. I have no doubt at all they also would have worked for me. I have no doubt as to what I'd want in my .300 WM on an elk hunt;180 Partitions.

 

[tdbmd]

Going elk hunting in Oct in Colorado. Using a .30-06 with hand loaded 180 gr. Barnes TTSX. I have been once before and on that trip carried a .35 Whelen.

 

[Gun-Reck]

The .270 Winchester, with good 150 grain controlled expansion bullets at moderate velocities, or the Barnes 140 grain TSX a little faster, is a solid performer out to around 400 yards.

Newfangled, State-of-the-Art, 1940's technology.

 

[Anchorite]

Maybe one day I’ll get the chance. But for darn sure I will put in a lot of time shooting and exercising long before the trip. A hunt like that would be a once in a lifetime event, so I’m not going to muck it up by being unprepared and unfit.

If one is sensible about their choice in rifle and cartridge for the given terrain and conditions, things ought to work out in the hunters favor. Proper preparation prevents piss poor performance, right?

 

[H&Hhunter]

Maybe one day I’ll get the chance. But for darn sure I will put in a lot of time shooting and exercising long before the trip. A hunt like that would be a once in a lifetime event, so I’m not going to muck it up by being unprepared and unfit.

If one is sensible about their choice in rifle and cartridge for the given terrain and conditions, things ought to work out in the hunters favor. Proper preparation prevents piss poor performance, right?

It’s like a 5 times a season event for us every year. Shooting skills are important but remember one thing about that. Everybody that heads out west for elk has this false expectation that they’ll be shooting cross canyon at long range. Realistically if you can hit a 6” circle at 400 yards consistently from field positions you’re golden. If you can’t do that get good out to 300 yards and you’ll be okay.

As far as fitness the very best workout routine you can do for elk hunting is high intensity interval workouts. That and strapping on a pack and slogging out miles on uneven terrain.

Not all elk hunting involves steep, deep, high altitude terrain. But being in shape is always a bonus.

 

[Eagle103]

Maybe one day I’ll get the chance. But for darn sure I will put in a lot of time shooting and exercising long before the trip. A hunt like that would be a once in a lifetime event, so I’m not going to muck it up by being unprepared and unfit.

If one is sensible about their choice in rifle and cartridge for the given terrain and conditions, things ought to work out in the hunters favor. Proper preparation prevents piss poor performance, right?

I'd say that's about right based on my one and only elk hunting experience. I thought I was fit but not turns out not as fit as I should have been. Also found out my clothing wasn't enough for a late October Montana hunt which is pretty inexcusable for a Minnesota guy. At least I was practiced and ready enough with my rifle for a 300 yard cross canyon shot.