9 m&m
Member
What do the markings such as Mk IV, Mk III etc mean???? Whinch ones are more rare?? More valuable?? Give me some info guys!!!!! 
Enfield Question
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Zeke Menuar
Member
The "numbers", i.e. No1, No4, are major designed of the Enfield. The "marks" Mk1, MkIII, etc, are variations in the major design.
No1 (no mark) Enfields are fiarly rare, and will command more money.
No1 MkIII, is the standard WWI-era Enfield, finding one in excellent condition may be a little difficult, but they are generally good shooters.
The No1s have tangent rear sights.
No2A Are Indian Enfields, built in Ishapore, and chambered in .308, rather than .303. I've heard mixed reviews of their reliability.
No4, Mk1, Mk 1*, and Mk1/2, are WWII-era Enfields and are fairly common. The No4s come with three different types of sights. The Mk1 sight is a battlesight zeroed for 300 yards, with a flip up micrometer sight, adjustable to 1300 yards. The Mk2 sights are a 300 yard battlesight (basically a ghost ring sight), with a flip-up 600 yard battlesight. The Mk3 sights are a 300 yard battlesight, with a flip-up, slide adjustable sight to 1300 yards.
No4 Mk2, and Mk1/3 have the trigger mounted to the receiver, while the earlier marks have it mounted to the triggerguard.
There is also a No4 Mk1(T), sniper rifle, very rare, very expensive when equipped with the original scope.
Then there are the P17 "American Enfields" that our troops used in WWI, chambered in .30-06.
That's a very rough run-down of enfields.
There are many more marks and numerical designations.
If you really want all the dope on them, go to
North Cape publications
and order Stratton's 3 books on the Enfields (they give a discount if you order all 3).
No1 (no mark) Enfields are fiarly rare, and will command more money.
No1 MkIII, is the standard WWI-era Enfield, finding one in excellent condition may be a little difficult, but they are generally good shooters.
The No1s have tangent rear sights.
No2A Are Indian Enfields, built in Ishapore, and chambered in .308, rather than .303. I've heard mixed reviews of their reliability.
No4, Mk1, Mk 1*, and Mk1/2, are WWII-era Enfields and are fairly common. The No4s come with three different types of sights. The Mk1 sight is a battlesight zeroed for 300 yards, with a flip up micrometer sight, adjustable to 1300 yards. The Mk2 sights are a 300 yard battlesight (basically a ghost ring sight), with a flip-up 600 yard battlesight. The Mk3 sights are a 300 yard battlesight, with a flip-up, slide adjustable sight to 1300 yards.
No4 Mk2, and Mk1/3 have the trigger mounted to the receiver, while the earlier marks have it mounted to the triggerguard.
There is also a No4 Mk1(T), sniper rifle, very rare, very expensive when equipped with the original scope.
Then there are the P17 "American Enfields" that our troops used in WWI, chambered in .30-06.
That's a very rough run-down of enfields.
There are many more marks and numerical designations.
If you really want all the dope on them, go to
North Cape publications
and order Stratton's 3 books on the Enfields (they give a discount if you order all 3).
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
I'll join Gewehr98 .......... The much under-rated Jungle ....... ... not as smart as yours and complete too with ''Whuss'' recoil pad!
... not as smart as yours and complete too with ''Whuss'' recoil pad!
nemesis
Member
The Canadians used No. 4's and manufactured them at Long Branch.
varoadking
Member
Anyone ever hear of one of these?
Ishaphore No I Mk III 2A Jungle Carbine in 308 Win?
Ishaphore No I Mk III 2A Jungle Carbine in 308 Win?
Desert Dog
Member
Yep it is a chopped 2A1. I think Gibbs or Century did this butchery...
Varoadking, that's a Val Forgett "what-if".
Gibbs, aka "Fibbs", was infamous for creating variants of the Lee-Enfield that never existed, or existed in prototype form only, for the simple purpose of selling rifles. The Australians experimented with a shortened NoIMkIII, but it never went very far. The Indian-made Ishapore 2A was a copy of the NoIMkIII rifle, albeit using a better grade of steel, and chambered in .308 Winchester. Those guns are just fine the way they are, as delivered by the Indian armories.. But Gibbs saw fit to chop and rebuild a bunch of them into a .308 "tanker" or "Jungle Carbine" version, without really letting people know these weren't real, as-issued collectibles.
I've watched a Gibbs NoIMkIII "Tanker" launch the nosecap and forward portion of the handguard and forend down range. The wood glue just didn't hold well enough.
They were doing a brisk business of selling No5Mk1 Jungle Carbine clones, until the big batch of original No5Mk1's came in from Malaysia a few years back. They couldn't make them for as cheap as the originals were selling. The Jungle Carbine pictured in my post above was one of those Malaysian bringbacks.
Gibbs, aka "Fibbs", was infamous for creating variants of the Lee-Enfield that never existed, or existed in prototype form only, for the simple purpose of selling rifles. The Australians experimented with a shortened NoIMkIII, but it never went very far. The Indian-made Ishapore 2A was a copy of the NoIMkIII rifle, albeit using a better grade of steel, and chambered in .308 Winchester. Those guns are just fine the way they are, as delivered by the Indian armories.. But Gibbs saw fit to chop and rebuild a bunch of them into a .308 "tanker" or "Jungle Carbine" version, without really letting people know these weren't real, as-issued collectibles.
I've watched a Gibbs NoIMkIII "Tanker" launch the nosecap and forward portion of the handguard and forend down range. The wood glue just didn't hold well enough.
They were doing a brisk business of selling No5Mk1 Jungle Carbine clones, until the big batch of original No5Mk1's came in from Malaysia a few years back. They couldn't make them for as cheap as the originals were selling. The Jungle Carbine pictured in my post above was one of those Malaysian bringbacks.
Third_Rail
Member
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- Jan 10, 2004
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I have a 1917 Enfield in 30-06, and it is a dream to shoot. 5 shots, 100 yards, four seconds.
Offhand, all 5 within a 8" circle. Good enough for me!!
Offhand, all 5 within a 8" circle. Good enough for me!!
varoadking
Member
Thanks - great info...
Spieler
Member
SMLE
Member
The Lee action rifle was adopted in 1889 as the Rifle, Magazine, Lee Metford. The first model has a straight line 8 shot magazine. The MLM MkI* had the staggered 10 round mag that was used on all subsequent models. The Metford rifling was unsuitable for the hot burning and erosive cordite propellant and was replaced with a type of rifling designed at RSAF Endield. This became the Rifle, Magazine, Lee Enfield. There were also cavalry, artillery and police carbine versions. In the aftermath of the Anglo-Boer war, the British Army decided to go with one rifle for all branches that was a little shorter than the MLE and a little longer than the carbines. In 1903, the Rifle, Short, Magazine Lee Enfield, or ShtLE, was adopted. It had a few bugs and most of these were worked out and in 1907, the Rifle, Short Magazine Lee Enfield MkIII was adopted. During WWI, several minor features of the MkIII were ommited to speed up manufacture and the ShtLE MkIII* was adopted. IIRC, in 1923 the nomenclature system was changed and the ShtLE becam the Rifle #1 MkIII/MkIII* SMLE
The Rifle #2 was a .22 cal trainer based on the SMLE
The Rifle #3 was the "American" Enfield AKA the Pattern 1914. There is NO SUCH THING as a "Patern 17" rifle! It is the "US Rifle, Cal. 30 Model 1917"!
The Rifle #4 was adopted in 1936, but production was slow until well into WWII so many UK and Commonwealth troops carried the Rifle #1. The #4 is NOT an "SMLE". That appelation is only appropriate to the SMLE. The #4 MkI* featured a modified method of removing the bolt and was manf. By Savage Arms in the US and Long Branch in Canada. Production of #1 MkIII* rifles continued in GB until the end of the war. Many of these rifles were made on machinery dispersed to small shops and were then assembled at the BSA factory. These are ofter reffered to as "dispersal" or "Peddled scheme" rifles.
The Rifle #5 was adopted in 1944. But was not a major success.
Australia never adopted the #4 rifle and continued making the #1 MkIII* until the adoption of the L1A1 SLR. Australia used a few #4s but not as a standard issue.
India made the #1 MkIII/MkIII* at RF Ishapore until well after Independance. The 2A and 2A1 rifles were Indian designations seperate from the UK nomenclature system. RF Ishapore developed a higher grade steel that makes the 2A & 2A1 rifle stronger than UK made #1 rifles.
The Rifle #2 was a .22 cal trainer based on the SMLE
The Rifle #3 was the "American" Enfield AKA the Pattern 1914. There is NO SUCH THING as a "Patern 17" rifle! It is the "US Rifle, Cal. 30 Model 1917"!
The Rifle #4 was adopted in 1936, but production was slow until well into WWII so many UK and Commonwealth troops carried the Rifle #1. The #4 is NOT an "SMLE". That appelation is only appropriate to the SMLE. The #4 MkI* featured a modified method of removing the bolt and was manf. By Savage Arms in the US and Long Branch in Canada. Production of #1 MkIII* rifles continued in GB until the end of the war. Many of these rifles were made on machinery dispersed to small shops and were then assembled at the BSA factory. These are ofter reffered to as "dispersal" or "Peddled scheme" rifles.
The Rifle #5 was adopted in 1944. But was not a major success.
Australia never adopted the #4 rifle and continued making the #1 MkIII* until the adoption of the L1A1 SLR. Australia used a few #4s but not as a standard issue.
India made the #1 MkIII/MkIII* at RF Ishapore until well after Independance. The 2A and 2A1 rifles were Indian designations seperate from the UK nomenclature system. RF Ishapore developed a higher grade steel that makes the 2A & 2A1 rifle stronger than UK made #1 rifles.
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
SMLE - most useful info - I have been (and probably still will be) well muddled over ''#this'' and ''Mk that'' ......... I am an Enfield fan but certainly not an authority - just love shootin 'em.!
9 m&m
Member
Well I was wondering what all the markings were because I have one that is
*
marked "G.R.I. No.I Mk.III ENGLAND." Is this just your plain jane everyday model?? I think it is.
*
marked "G.R.I. No.I Mk.III ENGLAND." Is this just your plain jane everyday model?? I think it is.
SMLE
Member
That would be an Ishapore made rifle. A good rifle, but not anything super rare.
xlman
Member
Ishapore ???'s
I'm pretty confused with mine. It has (G.R.I. - Ishapore - ShtLE - 1923 - III) and i'm seeing posts saying Ishapore models are .308 and not built till 1965...???? So, what have i got? A .303 or a .308? I can take a pic if needed. Thanks guys!
I'm pretty confused with mine. It has (G.R.I. - Ishapore - ShtLE - 1923 - III) and i'm seeing posts saying Ishapore models are .308 and not built till 1965...???? So, what have i got? A .303 or a .308? I can take a pic if needed. Thanks guys!
SMLE
Member
"GRI" stands for "Georgius Rex Imperator" The rifle The Rifle factory at Ishapore was set up in the 1920's and started out building .303 caliber rifles.
The .308/7.62 NATO rifles were built there post 1948 UNTIL 1956.
The .308/7.62 NATO rifles were built there post 1948 UNTIL 1956.
xlman
Member
SMLE, thanks! I'm learning more n more each day from the guys here! I hope some day i can repay with something of my knowledge.
madcratebuilder
Member
If you google "The Lee Enfield Rifle - Reynolds.pdf" you should still find this as a free down load. Published in 1957 I believe it's one of the better LE books.
One of the rarest No4's is the "Tanker"
One of the rarest No4's is the "Tanker"
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