Enfield Question

[Alte Schule]

I picked this up for $200. Seller told me he thought it was a jungle carbine but I disagreed and was about to pass on it when he said to make him an offer.
My guess is that it is an Enfield 4 MK II. The upper wood seems loose and the color is lighter than the bottom wood so I suspect it isn't original. The front barrel/sling strap works loose after ten or so rounds but tightens easily. Other than that and some minor condition issues it seems in pretty good shape. I got decent groups on a pie plate size target at 50 yards using Korean War vintage and S&B 180 gr .303.

So just wondering if I did all right or did I buy a Bubba special?
Can anyone tell me what this plastic tube is that was in the butt stock?

 

[GunnyUSMC]

What you have is a No4 Mk1. The No4 Mk1* is the same rifle except the bolt release was eliminated and a cut put in the raceway, to speed up production during the war.
The No4 Mk2 was an up date, mounting the trigger on the action instead of to the trigger guard.
The plastic that’s is an Oiler.

 

[Alte Schule]

What you have is a No4 Mk1. The No4 Mk1* is the same rifle except the bolt release was eliminated and a cut put in the raceway, to speed up production during the war.
The No4 Mk2 was an up date, mounting the trigger on the action instead of to the trigger guard.
The plastic that’s is an Oiler.

Thanks Gunny. Can you give me a ball park figure on the value?

 

[GunnyUSMC]

You did good at $200. They are bringing $350 to $400 these days. Don’t worry so much about the wood not matching. It was most likely refurbished after the war.
Here are some pics of the No4 Mk1 & Mk1*.


Look on the left side of the action. There should be some markings there like this.




The SN# will be on the left side of the wrist socket along with the date of manufacture.


The magazines were fitted to the rifles, but they can be replaced. The SN# is stamped out the back of the mag. This was refined three times.


The SN# is also on the backside of the bolt handle. An all matching rifle with correct parts bring more money then a non matching rifle.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

I picked this up for $200. Seller told me he thought it was a jungle carbine but I disagreed and was about to pass on it when he said to make him an offer.
My guess is that it is an Enfield 4 MK II. The upper wood seems loose and the color is lighter than the bottom wood so I suspect it isn't original. The front barrel/sling strap works loose after ten or so rounds but tightens easily. Other than that and some minor condition issues it seems in pretty good shape. I got decent groups on a pie plate size target at 50 yards using Korean War vintage and S&B 180 gr .303.
View attachment 791019 View attachment 791020 View attachment 791021
So just wondering if I did all right or did I buy a Bubba special?
Can anyone tell me what this plastic tube is that was in the butt stock?

Gunny's right its a No4 Mk1, but I don't think he noticed that yours is shortened. As far as I know, no arsenal did "tanker" conversions like that. Also, that crown looks Bubba'd to me.
Still, its a fine little fun truck gun. Value in the $200-250 range, IMO.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

You did good at $200. They are bringing $350 to $400 these days. Don’t worry so much about the wood not matching. It was most likely refurbished after the war.
Here are some pics of the No4 Mk1 & Mk1*.
View attachment 791034 View attachment 791035 View attachment 791036

Look on the left side of the action. There should be some markings there like this.
View attachment 791037

View attachment 791038

The SN# will be on the left side of the wrist socket along with the date of manufacture.
View attachment 791039

The magazines were fitted to the rifles, but they can be replaced. The SN# is stamped out the back of the mag. This was refined three times.
View attachment 791040

The SN# is also on the backside of the bolt handle. An all matching rifle with correct parts bring more money then a non matching rifle.
View attachment 791041

Love that Savage, Gunny! With an Ordnance Dept. Flaming Bomb, too!

 

[mokin]

I'd say you did well Alte Schule. Have fun and be safe.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

Gunny's right its a No4 Mk1, but I don't think he noticed that yours is shortened. As far as I know, no arsenal did "tanker" conversions like that. Also, that crown looks Bubba'd to me.
Still, its a fine little fun truck gun. Value in the $200-250 range, IMO.

Your right, I didn’t notice that it had been shortened, but it’s a pretty good job. Back in the early 80’s the importers couldn’t give away Enfields. You could buy one in excellent condition for $80. Gibbs cut down a bunch to make short handy rifles to generate sales.
I have a No1 MkIII that has been Bubba’d that is waiting for me to turn it into a Bulldog.
I have over 20 Enfields in my collection, three of them are Savages.
I also agree that the value would be $200 to $250 on a cutdown Enfield.

 

[Alte Schule]

Thanks to all. Good to know I didn't lose on the deal. Gunny those pic's are just what I needed. I'll break it down tomorrow and if you don't mind come back if I have any more questions.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Thanks to all. Good to know I didn't lose on the deal. Gunny those pic's are just what I needed. I'll break it down tomorrow and if you don't mind come back if I have any more questions.

Does yours have the angular "S" mark like Gunny's on the left side of the receiver? That would make it a US- made Savage/Stevens contract rifle.

 

[Merle1]

I picked this up for $200. Seller told me he thought it was a jungle carbine but I disagreed and was about to pass on it when he said to make him an offer.
My guess is that it is an Enfield 4 MK II. The upper wood seems loose and the color is lighter than the bottom wood so I suspect it isn't original. The front barrel/sling strap works loose after ten or so rounds but tightens easily. Other than that and some minor condition issues it seems in pretty good shape. I got decent groups on a pie plate size target at 50 yards using Korean War vintage and S&B 180 gr .303.
View attachment 791019 View attachment 791020 View attachment 791021
So just wondering if I did all right or did I buy a Bubba special?
Can anyone tell me what this plastic tube is that was in the butt stock?

It's not a "jungle Carbine (AKA No 5) but a shortened No 4, possibly done by Gibbs Rifle Works.

 

[tark]

A real "Jungle Carbine" will have a hollowed out bolt knob and machining cuts in the chamber area of the barrel to make it lighter. Wouldn't pay any attention to the off colored wood. They didn't make all three pieces of the stock from the same piece of wood anyway. They made a bunch of butt stocks, a bunch of fore stocks and a bunch of upper hand guards and threw them into a pile. Whoever assembled the gun just grabbed the nearest part, without worrying about color match. As long as the stocks were made from an approved type of wood they didn't care about how they looked.

As Gunny has mentioned, your gun was probably shortened by somebody, but the wood was (is) probably original to the gun.

And I think you did very well. I would have given $200 for that gun in a New York Second. Enjoy it.

 

[Panzerschwein]

The Enfield's Lee is an ideal stopper. Good even today. Research mad minute. Thank me later.

 

[someguy2800]

I’d buy it for 250, mabey 300.

 

[bannockburn]

Alte Schule

I think for $200 you did great.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

Here is another marking you may find on the left side of the receiver. This is another Savage in my collection. The FTR mark stands for Factory Through Repair. Some will have a number next to it which stands for the date of repair.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

Here’s a Jungle Carbine.