I recently obtained a no1 mk3 enfield from a gun show and the round got stuck in it the first time I fired it. I got the round out fully intact by tapping it with a rubber mallet and ammunition I was using was new from Sellier & Bellot. I’ve been trying to inspect the round to see if it’s expanded near the rim and it doesn’t look like it has, I also scraped a bent paperclip on the inside to see if it would catch and it didn’t. I placed it next to another unfired round and you can see it became a bit deformed on the other end at the top where the bullet was after firing (see image). Is that normal? Any ideas what the issue may be?
Enfield round got stuck after firing - headspace issue?
- Thread starter Ekunz83
- Start date
This really isn’t an answer, but that’s exactly what my brothers 770 would do, and that’s exactly what the empty would look like.
Length wise the casing neck looks typical of a fired 303 casing,pushing the shoulder forward. The chambers are reamed oversize for mud,sand and other fowling material in battle conditions. I can't really tell from the photo if the neck diameter has been over expanded from a cordite corroded throat. When I reload 303, I use casings that were fired with a small o ring at the rim of the cartridge to center it in the chamber. I neck size only and use the reloaded round only in the Enfield it was fire formed in. As nobody was picking up spent casings in a firefight,no one cared what shape they were,just that it sent the bullet down range.
As these rifles at least 80 years old,play it safe and have it checked out.
As these rifles at least 80 years old,play it safe and have it checked out.
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db_tanker
Member
Enfield extractors aren't exactly...robust. I've had to replace one on mine.
Here’s a better picture of the used round that was stuck showing the ring. It doesn’t feel like like there is a bump or anything. I don’t know what to make of it. It was something I fired strait from the gun show so it may just need a good cleaning and lubrication.. I figured I would post on here for advice before going the extra mile.
Attachments
DougW
Member
Normal. The chambers are very loose to compensate for dirt and mud, so this is absolutely normal. Remember the .303 head space is off the rim, not the shoulder. I reload .303 and only bump the neck, not full length resize. I do not have a sticking problem as long as I use the rounds in one rifle (the rounds don't interchange with my other 4 Enfields). The #4mk1 is easy to "fix" with a bolt head change. The #1mkIII doesn't have that luxury, so your kind of stuck with sticky brass.
All I gotta say that ... if that's normal....
Wow,
https://www.thehighroad.org/data/attachments/1076/1076322-2e4f73ad9ba1e2be5b9cd568c0433729.jpg
Wow,
https://www.thehighroad.org/data/attachments/1076/1076322-2e4f73ad9ba1e2be5b9cd568c0433729.jpg
Dr T
Member
Similar sort of thing happens in my 1898 Springfield in 30-40 Krag. On it, the shoulder has a radius similar to the radius from the shoulder to the neck on a 300 Weatherby. I believe that Weatherby referred to it as a "venturii" and I have been wondering if it was intentional on the Krag for about 45 years.
carbine85
Member
I don't think that's normal for a Enfield with the correct head space. Mine don't do that but they are also newer models from 1942 and 1945
351 WINCHESTER
Member
Most Enfields don't have normal headspace. I would clean the chamber really good and if this problem persists I would get a new ejector and spring. The brass looks perfectly normal for an Enfield.
lysanderxiii
Member
.303 headspaces on the rim.
There is zero probability that this is a headspace issue.
Probable causes:
- dirty/pitted chamber.
- weak extractor spring
- worn extractor
- soft brass
Dave DeLaurant
Member
Are there any longitudinal scratches anywhere on the case? A burr in the chamber can cause those.
If you spot any mild chamber roughness on inspection, one of these chamber hones can help smooth things to some degree.
https://info.brushresearch.com/rifle-chamber-hones-flex-hone-firearms
If you spot any mild chamber roughness on inspection, one of these chamber hones can help smooth things to some degree.
https://info.brushresearch.com/rifle-chamber-hones-flex-hone-firearms
OP might want to read & heed these two articles:
- http://dave2.freeshell.org/smle/smle195/smle195.htm
- https://www.gunboards.com/threads/303-ammunition-commercial-vs-military.1209712/
(...and never full-length resize again.)
.
- http://dave2.freeshell.org/smle/smle195/smle195.htm
- https://www.gunboards.com/threads/303-ammunition-commercial-vs-military.1209712/
(...and never full-length resize again.)
.
starnbar
Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2020
- Messages
- 432
In firearms, headspace is the distance measured from a closed chamber's breech face to the chamber feature that limits the insertion depth of a cartridge placed in it. Used as a verb by firearms designers, headspacing refers to the act of stopping deeper cartridge insertion.
GunnyUSMC
Member
That would be only on a No4 model. The bolt body on a No1 would have to be replaced, and that another bucket of worms in itself.
Do as @lysanderxiii advised. Give it a good clean and see how it shoots. If the cases still stick, replace the extractor spring. If it still sticks, replace the extractor.
starnbar
Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2020
- Messages
- 432
You can replace the bolt head on a num1 mk 3 which is what he has
Lee Enfield # 1 MK 3 Breech Bolt Head - SARCO, Inc
carbine85
Member
This is what I was thinking. I wasn't sure since I don't have one to look at.
Didn't they have gauge numbers stamped on the head?
starnbar
Member
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Yes they do
GunnyUSMC
Member
I stand corrected. Must not have been thinking clearly.
The problem is finding different sizes bolt heads.
But then, it still wouldn’t help in this case because, it’s not a headspace issue.
If it were a headspace issue the cases would bulge at the base.
Most extraction problems on Enfields are due to chamber, or extractor problems.
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starnbar
Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2020
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Yes and no my neighbor was an armorer during WWll with the Canadians and he serviced the Lancasters taught me about the 303 he said they checked every round of 303 due to variations in case head thickness which could cause jams in the guns on the lancs. He said the most common cause was case head separation which rendered the gun useless. This was early on in the war which was an issue the same problem was encountered with the SMLE.
Old Hobo
Member
Take this to your gunsmith and see if the bolt will close on an "no-go" gauge.
If so, see if a longer bolt face can be ordered. British armorers kept varying bolt faces as replacements for set-back issues -- this as others have said above. Common issue during Britain's many foreign wars.
Too, there's the issue with old / mercuric primed ammo. These cases routinely split at the neck, even the shoulder.
In Russian Nagants, the chamber often got coated with lacquer which was their version of cosmoline going bad over the decades of storage. Polishing the chamber (ever so carefully) clears this issue. Can't say I've heard this happening with British Enfields ... I could be wrong, for sure.
.
If so, see if a longer bolt face can be ordered. British armorers kept varying bolt faces as replacements for set-back issues -- this as others have said above. Common issue during Britain's many foreign wars.
Too, there's the issue with old / mercuric primed ammo. These cases routinely split at the neck, even the shoulder.
In Russian Nagants, the chamber often got coated with lacquer which was their version of cosmoline going bad over the decades of storage. Polishing the chamber (ever so carefully) clears this issue. Can't say I've heard this happening with British Enfields ... I could be wrong, for sure.
.
Risky buisness
Member
Thats really good advice, there is one additional thing to consider when talking about Enfield headspace however. If your gunsmith has any thing other than a British armory gauge, it's going to tell you a measurment off a SAMI based specification.
Not the british standard of 0.074", that being the upper limit. Other posters have mentioned the ' roomy' chambers with these rifles and the pictures of the fired case appear to attest to that. Not nessasaryly a headspace issue in my estimate. But it's really good to know where your rifle is in that regard.
Determing ' safe' headspace with these great old rifles is kinda iffy but a general idea can be gathered. Without gauges, one can simply pull a bullet from, preferably a british military round, and dump the powder. Hydraulically deprime the berdan case and using a spent large rifle primer with the internal anvil removed, lightly seat it in the pocket. Chamber that inert round and close the bolt with some vigor. Eject it and measure the rim thickness, then measure the distance between the top of the protruding spent primer to the chamber side of the case, subtract the rim thickness an you have a rough estimate of the headspace of your rifle, if that excedes the 0.074"
You may want to look for a new bolt head.
Not the british standard of 0.074", that being the upper limit. Other posters have mentioned the ' roomy' chambers with these rifles and the pictures of the fired case appear to attest to that. Not nessasaryly a headspace issue in my estimate. But it's really good to know where your rifle is in that regard.
Determing ' safe' headspace with these great old rifles is kinda iffy but a general idea can be gathered. Without gauges, one can simply pull a bullet from, preferably a british military round, and dump the powder. Hydraulically deprime the berdan case and using a spent large rifle primer with the internal anvil removed, lightly seat it in the pocket. Chamber that inert round and close the bolt with some vigor. Eject it and measure the rim thickness, then measure the distance between the top of the protruding spent primer to the chamber side of the case, subtract the rim thickness an you have a rough estimate of the headspace of your rifle, if that excedes the 0.074"
You may want to look for a new bolt head.
