Enhanced Peripheral Vision ©

[SkyGuy]

67 was the FIRST time it was shown to any personnel anywhere. Very well documented.

No bbguns were used anywhere on US Army military bases until 67.

I think your posted information is wrong again, Brownie.
Here's some researched info to add to your BB gun/QK history. Please make a special note of the underlined dates.

1. From Wikipedia: Another method of point shooting, developed by "Lucky" McDaniels and taught by the US Army beginning in 1954 was the "Quick Kill" method. It was taught using a rifle, although the same techniques apply to handguns or shotguns. The Quick Kill method was outlined in "Principles of Quick Kill", TT 23-71-1, and was taught starting with a special Daisy BB gun that had no sights.

2. About John F. Mullins 3 tour Vietnam vet, Silver Star, 3 purple hearts: In 1965 Mullins, at the Infantry School at Ft. Benning, Georgia, helped formulate the Quick Kill instinctive shooting program for training Vietnam bound U. S. soldiers.

3. From the Army manual Principles of Quick Kill, TT 23-71-1:
"And, prior to 1954, there was no program to teach that ability to others.
Then, in 1954, a program which used a BB gun for a training aid, made it possible to teach anyone to hit a close range target without using the sights."

So, since QK was taught 'before' markmanship training, there is the great probability that we were already past that stuff and it was merely shown to us as trick shooting. I can't remember.

Anyway, back to topic!!

Is there ANY proof that 'tunnel' vision does 'not' suppress peripheral vision? I believe it does.
In other words, is it possible to be in a sudden life and death situation and not threat focus, rather use Enhanced Peripheral Vision ©?
We already know that they eye/brain can't do both simultaneously.

It's your Enhanced Peripheral Vision © technique, so explain away. But, a simple yes or no will do, too.

.

 

[brownie0486]

First Wikipedia is not a definative source of reference for anything within it's contents. Wikipedia is written and can be rewritten by any idividual that chooses to post something.

Second:

Mullens may have been involved in the formulation of the program with McDaniel at that time [ 1959 ], however that does not have any bearing on the date of the first actual use of the bbguns at any training base within the US Army. Developing a program and training the troops are worlds apart. see the footnote added for clarification on timelines

As to the army TT 23-71-1 manual, the program they speak of is "Instinct Shooting" as developed by Lucky McDaniel, not a military program.

This: "Then, in 1954, a program which used a BB gun for a training aid, made it possible to teach anyone to hit a close range target without using the sights."[/I ] references that program he developed.

In fact, his method [ which the army eventually adopted and called quick kill where the rifle was concerned ] was taught by him for the very first time in 1954 when he was 30 years old to a private student. In 1959, when the first book on McDaniel was written by his good friend Mike Jennings, there still had not been any contact with the military to adopt this program of his.

So, since QK was taught 'before' markmanship training, there is the great probability that we were already past that stuff and it was merely shown to us as trick shooting. I can't remember.

You now can't remember? You didn't see the bguns in 1965 as you stated. Thats clear, if nothing is else here. Your attempt to vindicate your statements falls apart as it always does where this subject is concerned. Your references to the above are a veiled attempt to support a position you have taken on the issue since your statements quoted earlier. It doesn't wash.

In other words, is it possible to be in a sudden life and death situation and not threat focus, rather use Enhanced Peripheral Vision ©?

Again, you ask a question that is not supported contextually within the threads title. This technique, again, would not be within the realm of "sudden" anything. It could/would be used after threats had been ID'd as in the scenario I've already written.

Within that context, the technique is valid, works and one can count on it after having been trained thusly. You continue to want to put the context of this technique into a scenario it does not fit for some resason.

edited to add: After Mullins tour in 64, he was assigned to the weapons department of the Infantry School at Ft. Benning, Georgia, where he helped formulate the Quick Kill instinctive shooting program, training U.S. soldiers on their way to Vietnam in this highly effective method of target engagement.

Nowhere in that statement does it mention they taught the bbguns at Benning in 65. It says he was reassigned there, and while there at some point helped develop the program for the army while assigned to Infantry school weapons dept. He was obviously involved somehow with McDaniels program and just happened to be at the right place at the right time when the army decided to adopt it from McDaniel.

Brownie

 

[JMusic]

I have an article in Robert Beemans first edition Air Rifles. I shall quote as written.

A game known a Quick Skill was marketed by Daisy. It was derived from the US Army's Quick Kill training techniques of the Vietnam war. As early as July 1967 Time Magazine carried an article on the Army's use of BB guns to train troops in instinctive shooting. However, the training had been instituted more than a year earlier at Fort Polk Louisiana. So it appears the first formal training for the US military occured at Fort Polk in 1966. Daisy did not introduce their comercial model until 1968.
Jim

 

[SkyGuy]

Again, you ask a question that is not supported contextually within the threads title. This technique, again, would not be within the realm of "sudden" anything. It could/would be used after threats had been ID'd as in the scenario I've already written.

I read that scenario and it merely tells me about how to 'see' a peripheral threat. I use that ability all the time in judo training for multi uke. It's a natural ability that most everybody has and most everybody uses.

I don't get what the purpose is of learning a 'skill' that comes naturally to everybody. As long as I don't have 'tunnel' vision, I have peripheral vision.

Healthy eyes see peripherally out to about 70 degrees. It's our visual navigation system...our 'where' system. Keeps us from bumping our heads and stepping off the edge of a roof. It's a human innate ability meant to see objects/threats that appear from the sides top and bottom of our visual oval. It's also an important part of our inborn defense mechanism.

So since nearly everybody has and uses their excellent inborn peripheral vision, how can I benefit from your Enhanced Peripheral Vision © technique?
....and what do you charge customers for the training.
.

 

[brownie0486]

And that sir matches the years timeline I have between Ft. Benning and Camp Polk as well when the training was initiated at the bases.

June 67 at Benning and May 66 at Camp Polk to be more precise.

No US Army training with bbguns occured before those dates.

Brownie

 

[brownie0486]

I read that scenario and it merely tells me about how to 'see' a peripheral threat

Exactly. I'm not giving the key to how to use both sides of the peripheral [ enhanced ] at the same time with handguns to hit simultaneous threats on the internet. Students who take the classes will be given that key at that time.

Some of the students who have been given the key have reported on their success. The key to the shooting gets them to enhance the peripheral vision. I never made claims that no one had peripheral as you seem to suggest here:

"I don't get what the purpose is of learning a 'skill' that comes naturally to everybody. As long as I don't have 'tunnel' vision, I have peripheral vision."

So since nearly everybody has and uses their excellent inborn peripheral vision, how can I benefit from your Enhanced Peripheral Vision © technique?

Having peripheral vision and being shown how to use it from both sides at the same time to hit with two handguns are really quite far apart in scope.

....and what do you charge customers for the training.

I don't charge for that training individually, it has been incorporated into the full program being offered.

Brownie

 

[JMusic]

Skyguy if I may I had some of the same questions of what Robin Brown and his instructors had to offer. I have been in debate after debate on point shooting vs sighted shoting but fortunatley I was trained in instinctive shooting late 60's early 70's. Again at the time mostly airiel shooting and shooting at objects moving or bouncing across the ground. All with a 22 rifle. When I went into LE I definately had the edge on most I shot with. Speed and accuracy. This could simply be the amount of shooting I had done though for it was extensive. As you know there was a war going on and I was training for it.

When Brownie offered his course HSO and I decided to have a go at it. I was far from being a novice. Frankly my abilities allowed me to save lives by being quick enough to stop a shooting before it could happen, yet I took this course. I am a better shooter for it. I know HSO feels the same and he is very proficient with a firearm. If you really want to know what a course has to offer you inquire about the particulars and then decide. You sir have beat this to death. I'd say sign up or drop it there is not much more to learn from debate on this subject that hasn't been said twice.
Jim

 

[Jeff White]

I think this one has about run it's course. We've strayed pretty far from the original topic.

Jeff