Entire run has split cases.....

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GarandNewby

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FL? GA? AL? What day is it?
I've been reloading for about 10 years now. While I can't say I know everything, I've made a lot of mistakes and I think I've learned from them. Maybe not enough, maybe not the right thing, but I try to learn _something_.
Today I get a chance to learn something, and I want opinions on what the lesson should be.

At the range this morning with my Father-in-Law (henceforth "FiL"), supposedly teaching him about pistols while I test a new load in a pistol that traditionally doesn't cycle properly with RNL bullets. Since I reload, I scrounge brass whenever not actually shooting. I don't get all of mine back, I get some of someone else's, it all evens out.
Others also scrounge, and several people noticed that some of my cases are split. Not "See this black line? It's a crack; you can't reload this case." split, but "M-F you could drive a truck through that crack!" split. Please refer to exhibit A, the attached photo. While the true nature of those vertical black lines in the front row may not be clear, I turned the back row so you can clearly see the wood table through the cases.
Now, when I first started reloading, I segregated all the cases and made one run with Win, another run with Speer, etc while I was working out what I wanted. After awhile I had pretty well determined which brands worked and which didn't, and just loaded "mixed" cases with the loads I liked. Some of those experimental lots I never used, and they just sit around gathering dust.
Since FiL says he knows nothing about pistols, I'm giving him a lot of my old stuff to burn thru as he learns his way around the pistol I let him use. (He did spend some time carrying a 1911 for Uncle Sam's Misguided Children's club but that was well over a half-century ago, so he may not remember anything. I lost track of how many times I screamed at him to keep his finger off the trigger when not actually shooting, but when actually shooting he did well enough to piss off some of the youngsters at the range.) One of the sets I gave him was my load #9B, done on 3/31/2001: 50 rounds of 9mm made with GFL cases, WSP primers, 4.0 grains of Red Dot, and a 124 grain FMJ bullet.

I usually reject 5 or 10 per hundred cases I come home with, and I came back home with only 197 total cases (I counted when I decided to submit this post). When I got home and sorted through it all, I found THIRTY FIVE cases split like that, with a perfect record: Every single one was stamped "GFL" on the bottom. Yeah, I also rejected a couple others for damage, but those 35 splits bother me. So, what are the possible causes?
Could it be the gun? Yeah, but wouldn't I see these splits when shooting other lots, too?
Could it be my Dillon 550B? Perhaps the sizing die was scratched and scored every case in that lot, but again wouldn't that also have happened with lot #9C, loaded later the same day with only 3.8 grains of Red Dot, otherwise the same except for Speer cases? I've never polished any of my dies.
Could it be overcharging? Perhaps, but then wouldn't I have seen this happen when firing my lot #9A loaded the weekend before, which had the same primer and bullet but 4.2 grains of Red Dot and PMC cases?
Is it age? After all, we're talking about lots I loaded back in 2001. Perhaps, but again why this particular lot and none of the others I loaded back then?

I'm thinking that I'm going to add "GFL" to my list of cases to not reload. What have I missed, here?
 

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GFL is fiocchi and it's impossible to get in 45 here as it is considered better than anything else - even RWS/Geco.

After Starline for me it's GFL.
 
RC, thanks for that link! When I first started reloading, I started by scrounging brass for a while. I even bought a couple thousand cases off the Internet and a bunch from the local ranges, so I started with a very mixed set of cases. If we don't get any other ideas I'm just gonna add "GFL" to the list of brands to reject regardless of inspection.
 
I don't think it is Fiocchi brass in particular that is bad.

They apparently just let some quality issues get by them once 5 or 6 years ago.

In general, it is considered to be pretty good brass.
All I have ever reloaded was fine.

rc
 
This is a lot like Consumer Reports. They can't tell you what washer you should buy today; they can only tell you what washers they bought 5 years ago still work, and you can't buy a new washer today from the models available 5 years ago.
If Fiocchi had some quality control issues 5 or 6 years ago, and they had some quality control issues 11 years ago (when the brass I reloaded 10 years ago was made), I think I'll steer clear of them. Doesn't mean anyone else should, and they certainly worked the first time out of the box, as they were all intact when I reloaded them.
 
I have some "GFL" .223 brass, and other than being heavier than most, it loads and shoots just fine. I use less powder with them, they are that heavy. I have started culling them out to use as a batch if I get enough. Good stuff, just heavy.
 
This is why I like THR forum - It's like extended, long-term field testing for gun/reloading equipment based on actual personal experiences. :D

Great info.
 
Is it age? After all, we're talking about lots I loaded back in 2001
Maybe the brass came in contact with ammonia or a vinegar/salt liquid cleaner, making the brass brittle. 9 years old in storage would give enough time for the Corrosion to weaken the brass.
 
Just a status report: After I reported the above this afternoon, I put the 150 or so 9mm cases that passed the quick visual in my tumbler with another 200 or so I had laying around, and ended up with just under 300 clean cases that pass visual. Of the other 60 or so, I rejected ~25 for the crime of having "WCC" or "S&B" (both of which pop out of my Dillon 550B when I try to press a primer in; visual shows the base rim on them is more rounded than other brands so I don't even try to reload them any more) headstamps, a half dozen or so .380 Auto and 9mm Makarov (including one case clearly marked "WIN 9mm Luger" but the same length as the 9mmM cases; dunno what happened there), a couple that were crushed or otherwise damaged, one split case (headstamp "Speer"), and 23 "GFL" and a "FIOCCHI" case.

Now, the .380 and the Mak, that one split Speer, the WCC and the S&B and the damaged cases are all about normal for what I take home after picking up as much of my own as I can find plus some scrounged brass. The 23 GFL, though.... I carefully inspected every one of them. I found nothing wrong with any of them or the single "FIOCCHI" case, and would have no reason to suspect them if this morning hadn't happened.

I'm going to carefully load those 24 with my current normal setup and see what happens. If most of them survive, I'll call this morning a fluke; a bad batch as was suggested above, and keep using GFL. If I get many more splits, though, I'm gonna swear off GFL the same way I swore off WCC and S&B, _before_ someone gets hurt.
 
9mm Makarov (including one case clearly marked "WIN 9mm Luger" but the same length as the 9mmM cases; dunno what happened there),
People with too much time on their hands trim 9mm cases to make 9mm MAK out of them.
They are a royal PITA to sort out when mixed with real 9mm cases.

rc
 
Yep, 9X18 is much easier to miss than .380, which is smaller in diameter as well as shorter than 9MM.
 
I stay away from headstamps that I either know are coming from some third world shytehole or don't know anyhing about. S&B?? Old world commie manufacturing AND Quality Kontrol, too!! GFL?? CBC?? Aguila?? (New name for CDM, a "fine" mexican job shop...) A-MERC :barf: Oh, and good luck with any product liability claims for any of these offshore companies, too...

Stuff I like: Winchester - only been around for about 150 years.

Remington-Peters - about a century.

Federal - Only 80 years, right here in Anoka, Minnesota.

Would you shoot a gun if you didn't know ANYTHING about the company that made it?? But you'll shoot cases from a company that you know nothing about?? That's not consistent logic, in that both the gun and the case have to hold together for you to live to reload and shoot another day.
 
On the WCC and S&B, is it a primer crimp that you are not removing that is giving you problems? I've loaded WCC 9mm with no issues; just requires removal of the crimp.

For pistols I visually inspect each one, but have loaded all brands I've encountered so far with no issues and no sorting. My pistol loads are generally in the middle of the data.

I've loaded some GFL range pickup .223 with no issues (once again in the middle of the data). Fiocchi is a pretty well known name. Personally I'd be pretty surprised if they had any sort of long running endemic problem.
 
Strange, I don't have trouble with WCC and S&B cases popping out of MY D550 shellplate. I'd check the shellplate number just to be sure and then call Dillon.
 
Seismic Sam,

Fiocchi have been making ammo for 130 years and Italy is hardly a 3rd world country. I think it's extremely ignorant to put them in the same category as A-merc.

Just because you're unfamiliar with a brand doesn't mean they're automatically poor quality.

GarandNewby,

If you don't feel comfortable reloading them just chuck them in the bin and move on.
 
Looks to me like the brass is old and work hardened. What is its history? How many fireing and sizing cycles has it seen? Large sloppy semi-auto chambers and tight resizeing dies can work the crap out of a case over time. Using Brasso or other ammonia based cleaners on it can weaken the brass too.
 
Seismic Sam,

Fiocchi have been making ammo for 130 years and Italy is hardly a 3rd world country. I think it's extremely ignorant to put them in the same category as A-merc.

Just because you're unfamiliar with a brand doesn't mean they're automatically poor quality.

GarandNewby,

If you don't feel comfortable reloading them just chuck them in the bin and move on.
Thanks on the info on Fiocchi. Unofrtunately, I don't come across enough of it to be able to load a full box, and I don't mix headstamps, but I'll remember to list them with the good guys from now on.
 
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