Ethical deer range for a 50 cal round ball?

[david58]

PRB in a barrel made for bullets can be a challenge, in that a hot load can cause the ball to basically strip past the rifling. I found that with my TC, 85 grains was the max load I could use to maintain accuracy, using a .495 ball.

My scratch-built .50 has a deeply rifled Sharon barrel, and likes 120 to 140 grains. My limit is 100 yards, mostly due to my eyesight, but am confident that a good shot with good eyes could go another 25-50 yards with this rifle.

We usually have a tendency to overestimate yardage. Spending a lot of time on the range helped me with that, and of all things refereeing and coaching soccer helped even more (had to estimate distances accurately as a ref, got good at guesstimating distances on the pitch as a coach). The deer is usually closer than I guess to begin with - the longest shot I took a deer with was 90 paces. I have shot and lost a deer at 30 yards, though - ultimately your distance is determined by how well you shoot, not so much if the gun can kill at a given range. Usually if pointed correctly, a .50 will do the job across the entire range of what you can shoot accurately.

 

[WestKentucky]

My TC Hawken is a 45 caliber, and I shoot PRB in it. Like most guns, the range limiting factor is accuracy, which is more on the shooter than it is on the equipment. My TC throws a 3” group to 75yds and then it opens up very quickly. I’m certain that if I took my time and loaded the ball with the sprue the same direction each time and did a better job of measuring charge than my current method of putting a finger over the tube of my powder flask and using 2 of those “volumetric measurements”. Shoot your gun until you figure out what range you can smack a softball every shot. That’s realistically your max range.

 

[ThomasT]

Good points but the OP just asked how far a 50 caliber ball is good for deer. Most have said about a hundred yards before the energy drops below an ethical level. In my Sam Fadala BP manual he mentioned killing two deer with one ball at over 175 yards. He didn't see the second deer but the ball penetrated the first deer then stopped in the second deer that was close to the 200 yard mark. Does that make a RB a 200+ yard deer round? Not for me it doesn't.

 

[robhof]

PRB's perform best with twist rates of 1/54" up to 1/80", that said they do work in 1/48" but it's not ideal. I have 1/60", 1/48, and 1/36" twist barrels for my Thompson Hawken style rifles, the 1/36" is strictly for sabots and has taken deer out to 154 lasered yds, 50cal, took a deer with the 1/60" and Lee REAL bullet at 70 yds, and multiple deer with the 1/48 and REAL bullets. Take your gun to the range, try different loads and assorted bullets, you may find the ideal combo for your gun. I did try a PRB in a 50 cal B/P pistol at 10 yds just to see and it was dead on, but was all over the paper at 25 yds. I work up and down loads for all my guns and barrels, sometimes a mere 10gr. makes a different between 2 barrels with same twist rate! They all have their specific sweet spot; best bullet/ball/powder load!

 

[94045]

We have two different questions here..

How far will a .50 Caliber Ball reliabily kill a deer? At least 200 yards.

How far can a specific Hunter and weapon system reliabily kill a deer with a .50 Caliber Round Ball? I'm afraid the OP will have to judge that for himself.

 

[brewer12345]

We have two different questions here..

How far will a .50 Caliber Ball reliabily kill a deer? At least 200 yards.

How far can a specific Hunter and weapon system reliabily kill a deer with a .50 Caliber Round Ball? I'm afraid the OP will have to judge that for himself.

Yep, I only asked the first one. I am a handloader and caster already, so I can fool around with loads to get a good one. Field range depends as much on my eyesight as anything else. What i was curious about was terminal effect given low end paper ballistics.

 

[arcticap]

I found that my Traditions .50 Deer Hunter with a 1 in 48" twist will shoot a TC Break-O-Way sabot with a
.44 caliber 240 grain Hornady XTP HP bullet and 90 grains of Pyrodex P better than any PRB hunting load.

My personal hunting ethics demands that such a load be used with that gun to help successfully bag the intended game animal.
But I do fully support everyone's right to free choice of their own personal hunting loads whether it's the most effective or not.

 

[ThomasT]

Yep, I only asked the first one. I am a handloader and caster already, so I can fool around with loads to get a good one. Field range depends as much on my eyesight as anything else. What i was curious about was terminal effect given low end paper ballistics.

You may want to pick up a copy of the Lyman Black Powder manual. It has charts for round balls and energy levels from different velocities out to 100 yards. This is a newer version than the one I have.

https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Powder-Handbook-Loading-Manual/dp/B0000C6I4U

 

[brewer12345]

You may want to pick up a copy of the Lyman Black Powder manual. It has charts for round balls and energy levels from different velocities out to 100 yards. This is a newer version than the one I have.

https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Powder-Handbook-Loading-Manual/dp/B0000C6I4U

Yep, already bought one and read it. But fpe is not the same as real world results.

 

[94045]

Yes. My .38 WCF with 180 grain FP Cast Bullets loaded to 1300 fps should be a disaster (Has about half the energy "required" at 50 yards). I've killed 6 deer within 30-80 yd and none has went over 20 yards.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

In my Sam Fadala BP manual he mentioned killing two deer with one ball at over 175 yards. He didn't see the second deer but the ball penetrated the first deer then stopped in the second deer that was close to the 200 yard mark. Does that make a RB a 200+ yard deer round? Not for me it doesn't.

Ah yes I remember that article, but (iirc) Sam doesn't mention his muzzle velocity from that rifle, does he?
Due to the over penetration and second hit..., I'd have to say he was using a pretty stout load. Probably 90+ grains.

I agree that I wouldn't be going for a 200 yard shot with my muzzleloader, but not because I couldn't humanely harvest a deer with my .530 patched round ball at that range with a stout load, and not that the rifle couldn't be set with sights that would work to place the ball in the deer's vitals at that range either.

The problem would be with my eyes, being able to pick out a spot on that deer to allow me to place that ball where it needs to be, and I have 20:18 vision in my shooting eye

. I've looked at a couple of large does and a buck, at 200 yards. Did it just the other day with a buddy, and the laser had them just at 200 yards..., I'd be basically putting that ball someplace within an area the size of a Major League Baseball strike zone according to the sight picture, and I have rather fine open, iron sights. That could be miss, or a bad hit, or a great hit....depending on where in that "strike zone" the ball flew, and I'm not even talking wind deflection at this point. I might be able to do it with a peep sight..., but I'd rather have [forgive the sacrilege] optics if I was going out that far.

So all other factors being equal..., IF the rifle will accurately place the ball with enough force, that's half, and the other half is can the shooter actually see the target well enough to sight the target for the shot?

Consider this, if there is fog limiting visibility at 80 yards, does it matter if you and your rifle can consistently harvest game at 150 yards? My point is what the rifle can do is moot when you can't see far enough to take advantage of the full capability of the rifle.

LD

 

[alsaqr]

In 1966 in southern Maryland i killed a 12 point buck that field dressed just over 240 pounds using a .58 caliber half stock rifle and PRB. Distance was about 90 yards. i could not attempt that shot today.

 

[TheDr]

Just my 2 cents,which is free.
To the OP...how far can you shoot and keep a solid group within the size of a softball or grapefruit?
Then there is your answer!
Deer are thin skinned,and the roundball is very capable at long range.
Deer havent changed since the beginning of time,and poking a hole into the lungs is a dead deer...period.

 

[Karl.T]

I can hit pape plates consistently at 75 and 100 yards with my TC Hawken 50 using PRB's and 75gr charge Goex. When it comes to hunting I use same load and limit my shots to 50 yards. Why 50 yards? Where I hunt thats a long shot but I also like to hunt not snipe.

 

[paul harm]

IMHO, it's not the rate of twist for a RB but the depth of the rifling. Now I'm talking at least 1 in 48 or slower. TC and other manufactures button rifle to a depth of about .004 to .005 and that ain't a whole lot to grab the patch, especially if you want to hop it up. All I have are Bill Large barrels and he cut the rifling to about .014. This allows more patch in the rifling so it and the ball won't skip the rifling if loading a max load. Years back I was going to shoot the silhouette match at Friendship and had never shot over a 100 yards and ask Bill what load to use. He ask me what load I was using now and I said 90grs of 3F [ in my 54 ] . He said to use the same sight picture and go to 130grs for the 150, 175, and 200 yard shots. I tied with another guy for 1st place.
Hitting a metal target and killing a deer are two different things. How many of us can shoot good enough for a killing shot at 150 or more even if the gun will group good enough ? How far is a 50 cal RB good for - about as far as you and the gun can do a killing shot 9 times out of 10.

 

[NY Yankee]

75 yards + or -. Depends on how good you are. You can kill a moose with a .22 short (it has been done) but you gotta hit them in just the right place.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Agree with NY Yankee, one can much larger game with a much smaller caliber. A fellow called Koromojo Bell killed elephants in Africa with a 7x57 Mauser. He perfected what he called a quartering brain shot from about 20 yards. Not for the faint of heart.

 

[243winxb]

Looks like energy at 75 yards is about the maximum range? .490 ball. 175 grs.

 

[243winxb]

My 45 T/C Hawken flint is around 1900 fps, ball or maxie ball. 5" @100 yards , 5 shot groups. Back in the day.

Dont force the ball, it has to stay round. The old style maxi, worked better tne ball.

 

[rodwha]

View attachment 815116 Looks like energy at 75 yards is about the maximum range? .490 ball. 175 grs.

View attachment 815116 Looks like energy at 75 yards is about the maximum range? .490 ball. 175 grs.

Energy figures don’t mean squat. Speak to members on a traditional forum and see what answers you get from people who actually do it every year.

When I first became interested in a muzzleloader I looked at the ballistics and thought about 50 yds was all a .490” sphere would be good for with the poor sectional density/weight and energy figures. I was given an education though and was shown that energy numbers don’t kill, and that even modern understandings that are sold to us aren’t exactly true. That ball will generally give a complete pass through on a deer on a broadside vitals shot out to 125 yds and will give results comparable to using a modern gun. Sometimes dead right there and more often piling up soon after.

 

[TheDr]

Agree with rodwha.
A prb is deadly far further than our eyes will allow us to aim.
Personally,I'm comfortable all day to take 150 yard shots at deer,but only with that muzzleloader.
Why?
Because I shoot it year round and know my load. That one muzzy doesn't feel like I'm holding a rifle. It balances,swings and does everything perfect for me and feels like just an extension of me.
Now my inline...I've one that I'll take to 200 all day,if I have a branch to rest on. Offhand..I'm good with it to 100.
My Pennsylvania with prb,like I said,150 all day every day.
Because I practice year round with it.
The .32,I've seen in the hands of people steadier than me bust groundhogs at 200 to 250,so that opened my eyes to just how deadly they can be further than I initially thought.

 

[alsaqr]

Energy figures don’t mean squat. Speak to members on a traditional forum and see what answers you get from people who actually do it every year.

Right on!!!!!

IME: .50 can .54 caliber round balls perform much better than energy and velocity figures would indicate. For over 40 years i hunted deer exclusively with center fire rifles, mostly .308 Winchester and .30-06. In 2000 i began hunting deer and wild hogs using .50 and .54 caliber inline muzzleloader rifles. In about 2012 i began using conventional muzzleloaders and patched round balls during Fort Sill's muzzleloader season and to stalk hogs. . i have killed seven or eight deer and 20-25 wild hogs using patched round balls.

My eyes are bad and i would not attempt a shot over 75 yards, preferably <60 yards.

Believe it or not, within it's range, a patched round ball is as effective as center fire rifle. Put the ball in the right place and the animal expires quickly.

In October i took this buck with a .50 caliber rifle and patched round ball.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/took-a-deer-with-patched-round-ball.842730/

In rifle deer season i crawled up and shot this buck in the neck with a .50 patched round ball. Bang flop.

https://i.imgur.com/hbjEyXb.jpg


Why the neck? Because only the head and neck were visible above the tall grass.

 

[riflee]

What I know and go by is....50cal. ball in front of 90-100gr. FFg gives approx.1800FPS and 500 fpe at 100 yards with the min. fpe being ethical at 500fpe. Conical at approx. 335gr.weight in front of 90-100gr.FFg gives approx. 1400fps and 1000fpe at 100 yards. The conical would be ethical past 100 yards possibly out to 150 yards considering power. Ethical for the average marksman is said to be 100 yards but...….I know a good marksman can go further so ethical would be limited to 150 yards if the shooter can hit a pie pan size target 100% of the time. The true limit with a muzzleloader rifle at any distance is what the shooter can hit 100% of the time with at least 500fpe.

I hunt deer any more giving sway from the ball (which is perfectly fine) to a 500gr. conical Lyman govt. bullet mould (a 45/70 bullet) since my Hawken has an ordanance grade 4150 steel barrel and a rifling at 1-22. The barrel is just a 45/70 barrel with a hooked breech plug. Thin lands and wide grooves. At 75gr. ffg I get approx. 1200fps and plenty of fpe out to past 200yards. At one time years ago I could hit a pie plate 100% at way over 200 yards off hand. Out to 400 yards at least. The population of ground hogs digging holes in the farm fields could attest to the validity of that. Being ethical for deer I set my hunting limit to 150 yards though if the shooting lane is open.

Now with getting older with shoulder injuries not so good eye sight and all I set my limit to 75 yards.

The important thing here is to know 500fpe is the minimum fer deer to be ethical.

If anyone is wondering how I get a 500gr. bullet that fits my barrel snug into the muzzle I'll state that the barrel maker cut a few inches from the barrel bar ,once it was rifled but not octagon yet, and made a bullet swag for me to set the bullets ,lubed up, base first in the swag and tap them thru to put the rifling grooves on the bullet so it would load into the muzzle easily. Nice set up. Very accurate.

 

[rodwha]

What I know and go by is....50cal. ball in front of 90-100gr. FFg gives approx.1800FPS and 500 fpe at 100 yards with the min. fpe being ethical at 500fpe. Conical at approx. 335gr.weight in front of 90-100gr.FFg gives approx. 1400fps and 1000fpe at 100 yards. The conical would be ethical past 100 yards possibly out to 150 yards considering power. Ethical for the average marksman is said to be 100 yards but...….I know a good marksman can go further so ethical would be limited to 150 yards if the shooter can hit a pie pan size target 100% of the time. The true limit with a muzzleloader rifle at any distance is what the shooter can hit 100% of the time with at least 500fpe.

I hunt deer any more giving sway from the ball (which is perfectly fine) to a 500gr. conical Lyman govt. bullet mould (a 45/70 bullet) since my Hawken has an ordanance grade 4150 steel barrel and a rifling at 1-22. The barrel is just a 45/70 barrel with a hooked breech plug. Thin lands and wide grooves. At 75gr. ffg I get approx. 1200fps and plenty of fpe out to past 200yards. At one time years ago I could hit a pie plate 100% at way over 200 yards off hand. Out to 400 yards at least. The population of ground hogs digging holes in the farm fields could attest to the validity of that. Being ethical for deer I set my hunting limit to 150 yards though if the shooting lane is open.

Now with getting older with shoulder injuries not so good eye sight and all I set my limit to 75 yards.

The important thing here is to know 500fpe is the minimum fer deer to be ethical.

If anyone is wondering how I get a 500gr. bullet that fits my barrel snug into the muzzle I'll state that the barrel maker cut a few inches from the barrel bar ,once it was rifled but not octagon yet, and made a bullet swag for me to set the bullets ,lubed up, base first in the swag and tap them thru to put the rifling grooves on the bullet so it would load into the muzzle easily. Nice set up. Very accurate.

Nah. Energy figures don’t make it ethical at all. Go to a traditional forum and tell them this and see what responses you get.

 

[Gordon]

I hunt once in a while for the ML season on local Blacktails which are small deer, and keep it well under 100 yards with .50 round ball and as said they work OK with good hits. I use a .50 Lyman Plains pistol as back up and shot a couple over the years with it which were not quite finished and from 50 feet or so it produces the same wound as the rifle at 50 yards and works quickly and humanely. If I wanted to stretch it I use a modern rifle, I want a quick, humane death for the animal..