Evaluating reloads/hand loads

[AJC1]

There are a ton of variables not only in components we build with, but also in the platform we shoot them in. Do you have one standard for everything from rifle to pistol, cast, to iron sights.... how do you evaluate your product on target? A single action 45c and a 6mm br are obviously different classes so I expect that most have a pistol and a rifle standard as a minimum. My best 308 jacketed load is 50% better than my cast testing.

 

[Walkalong]

Do you have one standard for everything from rifle to pistol, cast, to iron sights.... how do you evaluate your product on target

Not even close........yes, but to different standards, depending on the application.

You ask about such a wide range of applications, I'll be shocked if anyone says yes to all.

 

[AJC1]

Not even close........yes, but to different standards, depending on the application.

You ask about such a wide range of applications, I'll be shocked if anyone says yes to all.

I was wondering kinda a list.
1. Precision rifle jacketed 1< moa
2. Cast rifle 2 moa ish.
3. Iron sights 3ish moa.
4. All pistol less than 3" at 10 yards...
Those are basically my benchmarks for loads I build myself. Iron sights at long range 100 or greater my eyes are the limiting factor.

 

[eddiememphis]

Do you have one standard for everything from rifle to pistol, cast, to iron sights....

Yes.

Every gun should place every bullet in the same hole at any distance.

Not realistic but why settle for good enough?

 

[AJC1]

Yes.

Every gun should place every bullet in the same hole at any distance.

Not realistic but why settle for good enough?

I'd be hard pressed to meet your standards, doesn't mean I'm not trying

 

[Obturation]

I'm not a good enough shot with a rifle to have standards . The real trouble is that I never bought enough of the same factory ammo to have a real tight standard in that regard . for my handloads , I know what I expect from a 405 grain cast & Hi tek coated .459 bullet in my favorite gun in that chambering . but I developed that specific load based on accuracy. I also shoot "modern lever loads" in that gun and starting trapdoor loads (all smokeless). So that 3 different animals all from the same iron sighted lever action from a shooter that admits to no being the best.

Compound that with the fact that I shoot mostly outside here in chicagoland- temperature swings between 100°F+ & -20°F and below at times. That's extreme and result will reflect that sometimes. Sometimes the wind blows.Also I shoot differently based on if my back is sore or I changed powder lots. Sometimes the stars align and I can make a 2" 5 shot 100 yard group- I consider that excellent and can not repeat that on command but can at times do about that well repeatedly .

These are the first reasons off the top of my head that I'm plagued with consistency issues, not to the extent that matters at all to me, I can shoot a soup can at 50 yards in good with that. So... That hits the tip of the iceberg on my "standard" rifle load. Every one has to be that good.

Pistol is easier. If anything shoots as well at 20 yards as a 158 grain .358 swc over 14 gr of 2400 out of my 6" gp100- it's a dang good shootin load. But... I shoot that gun a lot. Have for years. It's my "standard" for hand guns. Sort of. I say that because I have a load using a 158 gr xtp (jhp) over h110 that does shoot more accurately but I don't want to buy lots of jacketed bullets and don't need the h110 fun all the time . so is that my standard? I don't know.

This question (if I understand it correctly) is for such a small slice of the shooting community that getting much consistency in the answers will be tough too. Not many of us can take a capable rifle with known/proven cartridges and produce a .5 moa group, it will depend on everything + the shooter. Was it ammo? The wind? The powder? Dirty barrel? Everything?

I hope this helped add to the conversation and isn't a derailment . just what's bouncing around in my head .

 

[hdwhit]

I load .223/5.56 for five different rifles with barrel lengths from 16 inch to 20 inch. Two of the rifles are mine. One belongs to my wife and the remaining two belong to my sons.

On a good day, I am a 4 moa shooter at 100 yards. My wife is comparable as is one son while the other can consistently do around 1 moa (over iron sights).

My "standard" to load ammunition that is consistent enough to deliver 4 moa for any of us. Hopefully it will also be good enough for the son who can shoot around 1 moa.

 

[cfullgraf]

Where I have a firearm for a specific use such as competition or hunting, I develop the best load I can for that firearm.

Over the years, I’ve competed in IHMSA Handgun Silhouette (7mm Int. Rimmed) and Service Rifle (30-06 and 223 Rem). I’ve participated in several Prairie dog hunts with a 204 Ruger AR-15 and Savage 12FV. I develop specific ammunition for each firearm and each purpose getting the best accuracy I could.

For casual rifle shooting with ammunition that might be used in several different firearms, I like to get to 1”’groups at 100 yards but that is rarely achieved.

For my military derivative rifles, matching government standards for casual shooting ammunition is suitable.

I’m no Bullseye competitive shooter so I do not expect to get small groups. I find if I get loads with small groups in one firearm, I’ll get similar performance in other firearms. I don’t have a specific standard but I use a variety of standard targets at different ranges and like to see all the hits in the black. This is becoming more difficult as I am cruising past 70 years of age.

As an aside, from my Service Rifle shooting days, I have a good supply of repair centers for 100 yard course of fire competition. They make good handgun targets for casual shooting.

 

[DMW1116]

I have one standard for pistols for a good load, and another for service loads. Good loads will shoot under 1.5” from a rest at 25 yards. Service loads are 3” at 25 or 1” offhand at 10 yards with careful shooting in my part.

For rifles I want 1.5” at 100 yards for my 20” AR with iron sights and 1” for the scoped 16” barrel.

For my 308 AR, a good load is under 1” @ 100 yards, though for some loads/projectiles I’m happy with 1.5”.

My 336 sets it’s own standards. I just take what I can get. Under 3” @ 100 is good with the jacketed bullets I’ve tried. My recent cast loads actually do a little better, but I test them at 50 yards and use Williams peep sights for that rifle now. For those ~1” is the goal at 50 yards. They’re moving considerably slower than any of my jacketed loads.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I was wondering kinda a list.
1. Precision rifle jacketed 1< moa
2. Cast rifle 2 moa ish.
3. Iron sights 3ish moa.
4. All pistol less than 3" at 10 yards...
Those are basically my benchmarks for loads I build myself. Iron sights at long range 100 or greater my eyes are the limiting factor.

Nope. There’s an old saying, “Holes in paper count.” Well, so does meat in the freezer and smiles on faces.
I start with, “What do I want to put a hole in?” and work backwards from there to a load in a gun that does it. Then if I have more guns in that chamber I try them out with it. From there I think about how much I want to compromise for flexibility.
But my evaluation of that load in the gun it’s being developed for starts and ends with meeting the goal.
And before anyone asks, no I really don’t care if there’s a “better” way of doing it. But that’s just me.

 

[Varminterror]

Tools for tasks. Horses for courses —> or in this case, courses for horses.

 

[AJC1]

I have one standard for pistols for a good load, and another for service loads. Good loads will shoot under 1.5” from a rest at 25 yards. Service loads are 3” at 25 or 1” offhand at 10 yards with careful shooting in my part.

For rifles I want 1.5” at 100 yards for my 20” AR with iron sights and 1” for the scoped 16” barrel.

For my 308 AR, a good load is under 1” @ 100 yards, though for some loads/projectiles I’m happy with 1.5”.

My 336 sets it’s own standards. I just take what I can get. Under 3” @ 100 is good with the jacketed bullets I’ve tried. My recent cast loads actually do a little better, but I test them at 50 yards and use Williams peep sights for that rifle now. For those ~1” is the goal at 50 yards. They’re moving considerably slower than any of my jacketed loads.

I recently started working with a win 94, and my eyes are the limiting factor. Like you with irons I'd get much worse groups at 100, because of not seeing the target well. I've been shooting dollar general paper plates in testing/practice

 

[DMW1116]

Yea my eyes are definitely becoming the limit. At 50 yards I can’t aim at the little pasters that come with a shoot-n-see target. I can see it, but over the sights it gets too blurry.

I came up with a few specialty targets for load testing with iron sights. I may cave in and pull off a scope for load testing purposes.

One of my favorites was a sheet of notebook paper. I could line up the standard AR front post sight with the bottom edge for elevation and the width matched the width of the paper.

For Marlin or Henry factory open sights I had good success with a 12”x18” piece of paper with the top half painted orange. Then I used a 1” wide strip of black Duct Tape down the center. I used this to zero the 336 factory sights. It was odd looking but it fit the sight of me using a hammer and punch to drift the rear sight. I didn’t have any trouble with that target style out to 100 yards.

 

[AJC1]

Yea my eyes are definitely becoming the limit. At 50 yards I can’t aim at the little pasters that come with a shoot-n-see target. I can see it, but over the sights it gets too blurry.

I came up with a few specialty targets for load testing with iron sights. I may cave in and pull off a scope for load testing purposes.

One of my favorites was a sheet of notebook paper. I could line up the standard AR front post sight with the bottom edge for elevation and the width matched the width of the paper.

For Marlin or Henry factory open sights I had good success with a 12”x18” piece of paper with the top half painted orange. Then I used a 1” wide strip of black Duct Tape down the center. I used this to zero the 336 factory sights. It was odd looking but it fit the sight of me using a hammer and punch to drift the rear sight. I didn’t have any trouble with that target style out to 100 yards.

I got 3" stickies for pistol testing at 10 yards. I might not hit the pasty but they work well for a good point of aim. I'm refining my process for lever testing so I may try your tape and paper ideas....

 

[DMW1116]

It doesn’t work too well with a bead front sight but my Henry front sight matches the width of a 3x5 index card at 50 yards, turned with the long side vertical.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I recently started working with a win 94, and my eyes are the limiting factor. Like you with irons I'd get much worse groups at 100, because of not seeing the target well. I've been shooting dollar general paper plates in testing/practice

Given how much you shoot I’m surprised you’re not part of the painted newspaper club. Darned near free targets if you have the time to hang them.

 

[Bugster]

I do have a standard for my pistols, all fixed factory sights, and yes all less than 3" groups at 10 yards. I'm working on my rifles now. I have my standard for one and working my way up in caliber. It will take a while but it will get done.

 

[jmorris]

Do you have one standard for everything from rifle to pistol, cast, to iron sights.... how do you evaluate your product on target?

I don’t. It would be foolish for me to have the same expectations for everything I own.

Some handguns I might be happy with 3” at 10 yards and would be incredibly disappointed if that’s the best others could do. Much different expectations.



Same goes for rifles, I’d be tickled if this shot as well as my benchrest rifles.



Would have a different look on my face if they only shot as good as it does though.

Hard to make a standard with a very diverse field and intended uses.

 

[sfl_gunner]

For rifle 1.5 MOA at 100 yards. For pistol go bang and hit the target.

 

[TEXASJD]

Bolt guns (all custom builds) 3/8” are better heavy ones 1/4” or better gas guns 3/4” or better handguns pie plate

 

[BWS]

Tough question,"how do you evaluate your product on target"? Finally widdle'd it down after thinking about it to;

No gaps,or "bridges" on paper....rifle or pistol... see pics.

Not gonna touch the hunting side of this because.... mainly being a vermin,and varmint hunter the metric is a bit on the massive trauma side. But it is there....




Love this 2nd pic. Wind,caught me out on that one to the left,haha. There was a 308 discussion on Cast Boolit site.... on the day/s that thread was current,stepped out the shop door and with no foulers,no bore prep,no nothing but plop down and run 10 rounds through as quickly as I could yank the 1.5# R700 trigger.... hence the missed wind call.

 

[BRatigan]

Tough question,"how do you evaluate your product on target"? Finally widdle'd it down after thinking about it to;

No gaps,or "bridges" on paper....rifle or pistol... see pics.

Not gonna touch the hunting side of this because.... mainly being a vermin,and varmint hunter the metric is a bit on the massive trauma side. But it is there....

View attachment 1155158View attachment 1155159


Love this 2nd pic. Wind,caught me out on that one to the left,haha. There was a 308 discussion on Cast Boolit site.... on the day/s that thread was current,stepped out the shop door and with no foulers,no bore prep,no nothing but plop down and run 10 rounds through as quickly as I could yank the 1.5# R700 trigger.... hence the missed wind call.

The groups displayed here tell me everything is where it should be. Consistency over at least a 20 shot group is what I am looking for. BWS nailed it. The group sample was smaller but I'm sure it would hold up over 20.

 

[Charlie98]

Not even close........yes, but to different standards, depending on the application.

That, in a nutshell. Each load I work up has it's purpose... depending on how I plan to use it.

I am critical of my handloading methods and process, part of that is to work up as good a handloaded product as possible, part of that is safety, but I am Mr Real when it comes down to accuracy out of any particular firearm, rifle or pistol. I know I am the the biggest variable in the whole accuracy process.

Like you with irons I'd get much worse groups at 100, because of not seeing the target well.

I've found I can shoot peep sights nearly as well as I can a scoped rifle, at least out to ~100yds or so. I don't shoot true open sights well, but peeps are fine. When I'm really trying to wring out the accuracy in my testing, I have a scope I can throw on a rifle to eliminate as much human error as I possibly can... even if I don't plan on using a scope after proving the load. Same same with resting the rifle, I've found bagging the rear of the stock really helps in telling you how good the load/rifle combo is... again, taking out as much human error as possible. Having said that, I have one rifle in particular that shoots completely bonkers while rested, but fine offhand... my H&R single-shot.... so it is what it is.