Ever had a gun sale go bad while in the process

[SunnySlopes]

The negotiations are not over until the deal is done!

Screw that. I'm old school. If I'm on the phone with a buyer, and I say I want $500 for my merch, and he says he'll take it, the negotiations are over. All that's left is to meet and make the exchange.

If, when we actually meet, he pulls a "Oh, I'll give $475?" No, stupid. I won't take $475. I will take the price we already agreed upon. "I'm sorry, but it's all the cash I have on me." What, you're too stupid to count? In that case, call me when you get the cash, then you drive to a public location of my choosing. (And it's going to be a short drive for me, lemme tell you.)

I once called a guy about a table he had for sale for $600. I told him I'd take it and call back later to settle the details for the meet. I called him back and he said, "You do realize that the $600 was a misprint? It's actually $700?"

I told him where he could stick his table, but he'd better make sure it didn't have any splinters first.

The negotiating part of the transaction is over when both parties agree on a price. Anything else is just jacking around and manipulation.

It is an axiom in sales that the more time and effort you can get a potential customer to expend, the more likely you are of making a sale.

These opportunists (the kind of guy the OP had to deal with) want you to make the drive/take the time to make the meet. Then they assume you'll accept the lowball just because you've made the drive. I won't.

that's it so long as both sides are represented correctly

That's my other pet peeve. When I was living in Modesto, CA, a guy advertised a 29-2 as a solid 98%. This was after CA passed the laws that made it impossible to buy a 29-2 except in a private party transaction. I made the drive all the way from Modesto to San Jose. Stupid me. The gun was 80%, at best. I told him his piece of junk was far from 98% and left.

I hate those people about as much as I hate the crawfish type.

These days, if I'm doing a face to face, I make the other party do most of the driving. If it's not face to face, but instead is over the internet (gunbroker, mostly), I try to restrict my dealings with people with sufficient positive feedback. Better yet is a brick and mortar store that I call and interrogate over the phone. Even that isn't foolproof, but these days there are just so many unethical people out there it's necessary to try and protect ourselves.

.

 

[Esoxchaser]

People who try to renegotiate after the deal is agreed to are lacking something- integrity.
I have had a guy try that kind of stunt on me after I had driven an hour to meet in the middle. I was selling a hard to find used hydraulic wire puller. Then when I was getting into the truck to leave and he saw I was serious he said "Ok, I'll give you the $1200."
"No you won't" I replied. And I left. He called me like four more time apologizing and saying he really needed the item in question. I refused to deal with him. I told him flat out he had absolutely no integrity and I had no interest in dealing with him even for $500.00 more. Don't go away mad, just go away. I ended up blocking his number from my cell phone. LOL

 

[SunnySlopes]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Outstanding.

 

[au01st]

Had it happen this morning. Sold a TV on Craigslist since it got replaced this holiday season. Nothing major, 20" LCD, old old old, no HDMI inputs on it, no remote, pedestal stand missing, etc. Had it listed for $30 as it was really just taking up space in my game room. Guy showed up and asked if I could break $100. When I said no he said he only had $26. Since his was the only offer I'd received on the 3 days of listing it, I took it knowing it would probably continue to sit around. He doesn't know I probably would have taken $20, lol.

On all the guns I've bought/sold, I've never had anyone haggle after the fact, and I haven't either.

 

[itsa pain]

Wow I am drowning in this tidal wave of high ethics. I wish all these "ethics' would be applied to backstabbing gluttonous ammo buying

 

[Ranger Roberts]

First to respond? Ignored unless they are also first with the money.

Good point...

Still could have cost him a deal though.

 

[BSA1]

"Both parties agree on a price, that's a verbal, and in most states a legal contract."

Really! What states have that law?

 

[LT.Diver]

People love to bargain and dicker on any used item including guns. I don't know why, it's just human nature I guess. So baring that in mind I used to mark up my stuff a few bucks so the buyer could have the pleasure of "talking me down" a bit.
Then I just stopped doing it. I price it fair but firm. No BS and no confusion.
I regret selling almost every gun I've ever sold anyway. Even if I made a good profit I'd still rather have kept them.

 

[rondog]

Guess I'm just a sap, I usually pay the asking price - I can't stand haggling. Makes me feel like a cheap bastard. Paid too much for some things too, and that makes me feel like a dumbass. But I also try to factor in things like time, travel, waiting, shipping costs, FFL fees, any other things that I'm not paying that I otherwise would have to.

Like buying a pound of powder for nearly full retail. If it's not available locally, and I'd have to order it online and pay shipping plus hazmat, then I don't mind paying full price if I can get it right then and take it home. I figure that's a bargain.

And things that I've paid too much for.....there's also some outstanding bargains that I've gotten. I figure it's all a wash, I've gotten things that I wanted without shipping or waiting.

 

[gym]

I think that the people here are more like an extended family than just another gun forum, after as many years on here as I have been, most kind of think of things as I do. and have a value system similar to mine. If I say something to anyone, that's exactly what I am going to do. Hell or high water. If I cannot fulfill a promise, I don't make it. I would prefer to lose my money than my self respect. Money will come and go, your values will be with you forever. I don't mind anyone haggling over price when negotiating, but I do take exception to a man who tries to insult me, by pulling some nonsense that is obvious. when you meet someone you can size them up right away, a dirty dented up car, with stains on ones clothes and an unkempt appearance, along with wearing the same clothing for 3 days "since the last meeting" is a dead giveaway to me, of a type of person who is just "thrifty" , to be nice.
I think that we have a higher amount of integrity here than most places. And are more disappointed with people who try to get over than the average person would be.
Lets face it I owned a Gym and all I did was close deals all day, so I have grown to be able to see it all, but that doesn't mean it still doesn't bother me.
I am used to the guy with the hundred thousand dollar car cry about his 35 dollar a month health club payment. And have the nerve to try to sneak in on a daily basis. They are out there but it still bothers me. You have no idea how many times guys have pleaded with me to let them work out 1 more time and they would be in tomorrow to pay the 3 months they owed. I lost my virginity a long time ago this brought it al back

 

[Glocktogo]

We have a gun forum in my state that works like a community. There are rules for buying and selling. These are what I call "big boy rules".

The first PM to reply "I'll take it" has priority.

If you offer less than full asking price, the seller has the option to take any full price reply over the negotiator.

As the seller, if you agree to a negotiated price and someone comes along after that offering more, you honor the deal you already agreed to. No "yo-yo'ing" the buyer(s).

Once the price is agreed to, it's firm unless an undisclosed defect or issue is discovered.

Show up to the agreed upon meeting place ON TIME. If you can't for some reason, you notify the other person PRIOR to the agreed time.

Once the inspection is complete and the item is as described, you do the deal for the agreed price. No backing out because "you changed your mind". If you don't like what you bought, relist it.

If the buyer is short, the seller has the option to decline the sale. The seller has the option to accept the lowball offer, but may at their discretion leave NEGATIVE feedback for the buyer. In other words, how much is your reputation worth?

Fraudulent or dishonest buyers/sellers may be banned from using the classifieds. These are the rules you agree to in order to hawk your wares on that forum.


For myself, I'm always fairly flexible on the meet location. If I'm buying and I really want the item, I'll go to the seller. If I'm selling and I really want the deal, I'll meet halfway. If you dicker me down before agreeing on price, you'll be meeting me at a time and location that are fully convenient for me, not you. I never misrepresent my goods. If you show up with less than the agreed upon price, or decide to renig on the deal once I've made the trek, you WILL receive negative feedback.

I've only had one buyer fail so far. I had driven over an hour, but it was to do two deals at once. This buyer was short $30. fortunately he was going to get some extras on top of the gun. He still got the gun, but lost out on $50 worth of extras. He also didn't last much longer on that forum.

Integrity is critical for me when buying and selling guns. A deal gone bad will leave a bitter taset long after the money is gone. It's just not worth it.

 

[Dr. Sandman]

If I'm on the phone with a buyer, and I say I want $500 for my merch, and he says he'll take it, the negotiations are over.

But if you are the buyer, then you are assuming that the merch is accuratly represented, which fails to be the case in many situations.

That's my other pet peeve. When I was living in Modesto, CA, a guy advertised a 29-2 as a solid 98%. This was after CA passed the laws that made it impossible to buy a 29-2 except in a private party transaction. I made the drive all the way from Modesto to San Jose. Stupid me. The gun was 80%, at best. I told him his piece of junk was far from 98% and left.

Did you tell the guy in San Jose that you would take the gun? If so, then you violated your own princple. It's OK! There are so many intangibles and unpredictable events and occurances that surround these types of deals. The negotiations are not over until they are, then the deal is done!

 

[BSA1]

Rating a gun is very subjective.

I would hardly call a "80%" gun a "piece of junk." But then mechanical condition is more important to me than wear on the blued finish.

Well I do have a S&W Model with 50% finish that developed mechanical problems shortly after I brought it. But I inspected it before I brought it and it was only $200.00. With the repair bill from S&W I probably have more in it than it's resale value but I have a factory new internal action and a very solid shooter.

 

[goon]

First to respond? Ignored unless they are also first with the money.

The first "I'll take it, I have money, and I'm getting in my car right now" is the guy I sell to. Too many guys say they'll show, then don't. I don't waste time with that either. Money talks.

And my favorite one - I bought a nice Russian Makarov once for $125. I told them at the LGS that it was worth almost twice what they were asking for it (about six years ago). They told me to buy it then... so I did. I played around with it for a while, then saw an SP-101 that I knew I could almost pay for with the Mak, so I listed it for $250 locally.
I had morons lowballing me left and right and one guy who tried to trade me a Jennings 9mm for it... all kind of BS. But a guy locally wanted it and paid my asking price, minus the transfer fee which I paid for.
I then had the satisfaction of telling all the other losers, one of whom had finally come up to my asking price, that I'd sold it already.

 

[SunnySlopes]

which fails to be the case in many situations.

The OP already described his gun. Don't be obtuse.

Did you tell the guy in San Jose that you would take the gun?

It was a meet for me to examine the gun. Now you're being deliberately obtuse. You're trying to be cute. You're not.

 

[SunnySlopes]

I would hardly call a "80%" gun a "piece of junk."

It wasn't a 98%, which is what I went to see. And, 80%, for my collection, is junk.

And yeah, rating a gun is subjective, to a degree. But nobody, other than a crook, a fool or a liar, could possibly rate a 29-2 with visible rust on several places on the gun, and a very loose lock up, as 98%.

 

[xxjumbojimboxx]

I really dont buy much from the store... So I have to rely on the condition the seller says it's in... if its not what was conveyed... I ask for a better deal. More often then not... its not in the promised condition.. at which point I get a better price... or I walk

 

[788Ham]

I had a .22 mag/20 ga. over/under I wanted to sell, so I could purchase another rifle I wanted. A couple of guys at work knew the condition I keep my firearms in, "Yeah, thats a good deal, you ought to buy it, worth the money." So the buyer wanted to look at it, "I'll bring it to work tomorrow, but will meet you off company property, no sales here." The guy wanted it badly, "I'll bring the money tomorrow, if you'll let me take it home, go shoot it a little bit, hows that, okay?" I picked up the rifle, got in my truck and drove off, no sale! This guy ran his mouth off about it being all scratched up, no front sight, blah, blah. I told one of the guys to come to my pickup after work the next day, off property and look at it, when he saw it, he bought it right then, cash monies. I later told the guy, I don't trust people who try to jerk my chain and then lie about it. 3 months later he was fired for theft !

 

[nulook45]

Last gun deal

I had was for a High standard DM-101 derringer for 40 dollars it didnt work when i got it and a RG-10 in complete parts in a box condition . for 10 bucks. i wanted some project guns so this was ok by me. I just wanted something to work with i got there we met all i had was 3 20s or 60 dollars i just told the guy Merry Christmas . and have a good day. Sometimes its not about the money but about the people you deal with . btw the 600 dollar Derringer only cost 2.75 for a mainspring washer . so i think i did ok

 

[xxjumbojimboxx]

I had a .22 mag/20 ga. over/under I wanted to sell, so I could purchase another rifle I wanted. A couple of guys at work knew the condition I keep my firearms in, "Yeah, thats a good deal, you ought to buy it, worth the money." So the buyer wanted to look at it, "I'll bring it to work tomorrow, but will meet you off company property, no sales here." The guy wanted it badly, "I'll bring the money tomorrow, if you'll let me take it home, go shoot it a little bit, hows that, okay?" I picked up the rifle, got in my truck and drove off, no sale! This guy ran his mouth off about it being all scratched up, no front sight, blah, blah. I told one of the guys to come to my pickup after work the next day, off property and look at it, when he saw it, he bought it right then, cash monies. I later told the guy, I don't trust people who try to jerk my chain and then lie about it. 3 months later he was fired for theft !

Sounds like ol' boy was trying to make a flip. He knew he could sell it for more, still tried to get it for less...

 

[barnbwt]

That's an old, old con that's being revived in the Craigslist era. "The bait and switch" but a twist on the old classic in which the buyer is doing the switch. He hopes that you'll be too lazy to lose the "investment" you made in reaching agreement, and offers you a Hobson's Choice so that you will go wanting in the name of getting on with life. He negotiated that price knowing all along he'd lowball you this way in the end. A Hobson's Choice ("you'll get what I give you or nothing") is an extremely disrespectful tactic, especially in a negotiation. Mr. Hobson ran a horse livery and didn't allow customers to select the horse they rented; that was a condition of the rental agreement, and ensured all the horses were regularly rented. Trying to coerce a seller into dropping a previously agreed-upon price is closer to theft than fraud. But who's gonna complain about 25$?

TCB

 

[newfalguy101]

Had something similar happen once.

I was set-up at a local show, a guy looked over a rifle I had, we talked he fondled we talked we reached a price agreeable to each of us, he heads the ATM and upon returning, proceeded to "try" to continue negotiating price. I simply stated that I thought we had agreed on price and I wasn't going to lower my price ANY........he looked at me and said ok. Came on my side of the table and filled out the paperwork, and walked away with a nice K-31 at a fair price and I had cash in my pocket.

 

[JoePfeiffer]

If it isn't in writing or money / item has not changed hands yet it is not a legal deal. At worst you are out gas money if you had to drive somewhere to meet the buyer.

IANAL but my understanding is that a verbal agreement is a legal contract (as a practical matter it's impossible to enforce unless there are witnesses, but that's a separate issue).

Holding to the agreed-upon deal was definitely the right thing to do.

 

[xxjumbojimboxx]

I really don't mind a haggler, I don't have to sell the gun ya know... And I personally think haggling is fun. Me, Ill haggle before we meet up, because usually I can get what I want without the tactics... But hey, I see it as a matter of skill.. If you've got the skill to make your money, there's bound to be someone with the ability to swindle you out of some of that... Right? Perhaps your good at both. Then you get ahead


By the way, When I saw the gun deal gone bad thing... I thought the worst, like stolen, shot at, or even shot. This is actually a positive thing for the gun trading community, as no one has come in here and said "oh yeah I went and the guy showed with six other guys with AK47s and stole all my guns!"

All of the trades, buys and sales I've done have been very legit. Let's ask the same question in a tech forum for like a tablet or an iphone and see what kind of responses come from there

 

[SunnySlopes]

my understanding is that a verbal agreement is a legal contract

It's called an oral contract, and there's generally some considerations. There has to be an offer and acceptance. There also has to consideration (a legal term). It's been a few years since I took business law, but IIRC, "consideration" means each party is bringing something of equivalent value to the transaction.

For example, if you offer to sell me your $50,000 car for $1, and I accept, I can't hold you to it. There's disparity in what we're each bringing to the transaction, hence, no consideration.

What else? Property can't be transferred by a mere oral contract. I learned that a few years ago when my father passed.

And depending upon the state, oral contracts aren't valid for amounts over $500.

But you're right, in the OP's scenario, it would be impossible to enforce unless there are witnesses.