Ever tried to duplicate a particular/specific factory load?

Airborne Falcon

Airborne Falcon

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Most handloaders have, at some time or another, tried-to duplicate a favorite factory round or load. I know I'm guilty as charged especially/only if I can get the same factory projectile used in a favorite factory load and doubly-especially if it saves me a ton of money if I roll my own in said favorite factory loads.

Some of the ones I've tried-to duplicate are ....

Winchester White Box 115 grain 9mm plinking/practice FMJs. (Used-to-be that you couldn't roll'em cheaper than you could buy them but things changed a couple two or three years ago.)

MK262 Mod 1C (long range AR shooters know about this one, Black Hills' secret sauce ... smk 77 gr w/cannelure at 2760 fps and sub MOA out-to 200 meters ... without showing pressure signs. No easy feat. It's the holy grail of handloads.)

M855 and M193 (milspec 5.56x45 in 62 and 55 respectively)

Federal Premium Hydra-Shok, 9mm, 135 (Used-to-be my EDC load in my Shield.)

SIG V-Crown 124s and 147s (were my go-to factory loads in my current EDC P365 and P320 until I met or exceeded both, but it was work)

Hornady Leverevolution in 30-30 and .338 Marlin Express (can't beat'em for levergun hunting)

So what's the one roadblock we most-often run into? Which propellant they use at the factory ... correct? I think the LEVERevolution loads were the first ones where the factory manufacturer just came-out and said outloud, "We use LEVERevolution powder in our factory loads." ... but I couldn't get duplicate results even using their new factory brass.

Which ones have you tried and how close did you get? Were there any where you actually ended-up improving on the factory load you started-out chasing? Were there any you just couldn't figure-out?

Edited: spelling and big thumbs bad grammar.
 
Last edited:
Airborne Falcon said:
M855 and M193 (milspec 5.56x45 in 62 and 55 respectively)
Click to expand...

I've tried to reproduce the M193 load, using H335. I wound up at about 95% of the velocity of factory because I had concerns about pressure. Close enough for government work, as they say.

The only other load I've tried to duplicate is the Speer GoldDot Short Barrel 230grn factory load... back in the good 'ole days when you could buy those as component bullets. I got them pretty close using Unique, even though I'm sure they aren't using something that slow.

My standard FMJ loads in both .45 (230grn) and 9mm (124grn) are loaded to a similar velocity as factory... although I wasn't necessarily trying to duplicate the factory load, per se.
 
Oooooh, yes! I tried making an accurate copy of the Remington green-and-yellow box .38Spl 148gr LWC target load. 2.8gr. of Bullseye and a SWAGED! Speer 148gr WC nailed it. I also copied the Remington 158gr JHP .357Mag hunting load but even tinkering with multiple powders and projectiles only got me close. I ended up using the Speer 160gr. SJHP for the win - it wasn't the Remington; it was better! :)

MY biggest failure was trying to reproduce the British .380 Mk.1 (.38/200) service round. I played with powders, cases, projectiles, crimps... arrrgh! Never managed to copy the service-issue load. I could not get to the 620-650fps range without problems - keyholing, shotgun patterns, hard extraction, you name it. But, a classic .38S&W "Super Police" load with Bullseye got me 670-700fps and consistent hits to the same point of aim from a Webley commercial Mk. IV. I decided to stick with the hotter load and not worry about 50-80fps over. The Webley's plenty strong enough.

There's been others but I mostly stopped worrying about trying to copy factory loads a long time ago. I try for better, not equal. :)
 
Ive a done a few, and made them better in some cases. Powder is the hard thing to figure honestly as you pointed out.

Anything in 9mm Ive found pretty easy. I cloned the Hornady 147 XTP load in 15 bullets using TiteGroup. Ran it to the box advertised 980 fps and stopped. N320 would be better, but I dont have any on hand. I carry this load.
MK262 gives alot of people trouble. Easiest way I found to get there is using 8208 XBR. Im getting 2800+fps, but I also shoot a 24" barrel with that gun. Figure 20fps(ish) loss per inch of barrel. It is a great 500-600 yard load.
M80 ball with Hornady 150 FMJBTs was pretty easy with just about any powder that appropriate for 308. I shoot alot of these in my AR10. Also burned up a bunch of the Hornady 150 SPs that they give away with this same powder charge. It is pretty easy to get better velocity safely when cloning M80 ball.
257 Weatherby Magnum factory ammo using a 117 round nose was a pain. Just took alot of messing around, and the gun over heats quick, making load dev take awhile. Im still off the velocity mark on that one, but its a good accurate load, so we left it. Big savings on this one though. Factory ammo is like $80 a box.
Federal GMM 308 with 168s and 175s was pretty easy to meet or exceed. Copy CBTO, use Varget to meet or exceed factory velocity, and better ES/SD.
Hornady 6 CM 108 ELD Match was another easy one. Copy CBTO, I knew the velocity of the factory ammo, loaded with H4350 until I hit the factory velocity, except I have better ES/SD.
 
Kaldor said:
Ive a done a few, and made them better in some cases. Powder is the hard thing to figure honestly as you pointed out.

Anything in 9mm Ive found pretty easy. I cloned the Hornady 147 XTP load in 15 bullets using TiteGroup. Ran it to the box advertised 980 fps and stopped. N320 would be better, but I dont have any on hand. I carry this load.
MK262 gives alot of people trouble. Easiest way I found to get there is using 8208 XBR. Im getting 2800+fps, but I also shoot a 24" barrel with that gun. Figure 20fps(ish) loss per inch of barrel. It is a great 500-600 yard load.
M80 ball with Hornady 150 FMJBTs was pretty easy with just about any powder that appropriate for 308. I shoot alot of these in my AR10. Also burned up a bunch of the Hornady 150 SPs that they give away with this same powder charge. It is pretty easy to get better velocity safely when cloning M80 ball.
257 Weatherby Magnum factory ammo using a 117 round nose was a pain. Just took alot of messing around, and the gun over heats quick, making load dev take awhile. Im still off the velocity mark on that one, but its a good accurate load, so we left it. Big savings on this one though. Factory ammo is like $80 a box.
Federal GMM 308 with 168s and 175s was pretty easy to meet or exceed. Copy CBTO, use Varget to meet or exceed factory velocity, and better ES/SD.
Hornady 6 CM 108 ELD Match was another easy one. Copy CBTO, I knew the velocity of the factory ammo, loaded with H4350 until I hit the factory velocity, except I have better ES/SD.
Click to expand...
Jrb had a lot of luck with the 262 and 2520.
 
I have duplicated and improved accuracy over Precision Hunter 30-06 and 300wm. I used Superformance in the 30-06 , 178ELDX, and I suspect that's what the factory rd uses.

I used H1000 for the 300wm , but I think the factory rds are using a ball powder of some kind.

I also duplicated Lever Evolution 30-30, 160ftx, but in my gun, I couldn't do much better than the factory load accuracy.
 
Kaldor said:
Anything in 9mm Ive found pretty easy. I cloned the Hornady 147 XTP load in 15 bullets using TiteGroup. Ran it to the box advertised 980 fps and stopped. N320 would be better, but I dont have any on hand. I carry this load.

MK262 gives alot of people trouble. Easiest way I found to get there is using 8208 XBR. Im getting 2800+fps, but I also shoot a 24" barrel with that gun. Figure 20fps(ish) loss per inch of barrel. It is a great 500-600 yard load.
Click to expand...

I love N320 and N330 in many of my 9mm loads, 124, 135 and 147. I wish I could find a decent 115 powder, inexpensive and readily available, for any of the various 115 gr Berrys or Speer TMJs, etc., where I cpuld just go production line crazy on some practice ammo. I'm getting dupe velocities and accuracy with Unique but good gosh it is dirty.

I've heard good things about 8208 XBR, Varminter and 2520 ... 2520 and 540 gave me the best of both worlds depending upon ambient temp on range days. 540 seems a little more temp stable to me. We have to deal more with high heat than cold down here.

AJC1 said:
Jrb had a lot of luck with the 262 and 2520.
Click to expand...

Ole Johnny's Reloading Bench ... God Bless'im. I actually used-to donate to his channel for years - talking hands - he uses a good methodology too. I'll have to-go back and check-out that series again. Gosh that had-to-be five or six years ago.

Lennyjoe said:
Am currently in the process of trying to duplicate the Underwood Ammunition 10MM 200 gr JHP load.
Click to expand...

Ooooooooo good one! That's a really good one to tackle right there! Their Nosler projectile JHP Sporting/Hunting load correct? I bought some 200 gr Nosler JHPs hoping to give those a try a few years ago and just never got around to it ... please let us know what you come up with.

There are some really good ideas in this thread already ... thanks guys! Yeah, I find a factory load that I really like then I work it up and try to load a bunch of it at a time.
 
Airborne Falcon said:
I love N320 and N330 in many of my 9mm loads, 124, 135 and 147. I wish I could find a decent 115 powder, inexpensive and readily available, for any of the various 115 gr Berrys or Speer TMJs, etc., where I cpuld just go production line crazy on some practice ammo. I'm getting dupe velocities and accuracy with Unique but good gosh it is dirty.

I've heard good things about 8208 XBR, Varminter and 2520 ... 2520 and 540 gave me the best of both worlds depending upon ambient temp on range days. 540 seems a little more temp stable to me. We have to deal more with high heat than cold down here.



Ole Johnny's Reloading Bench ... God Bless'im. I actually used-to donate to his channel for years - talking hands - he uses a good methodology too. I'll have to-go back and check-out that series again. Gosh that had-to-be five or six years ago.



Ooooooooo good one! That's a really good one to tackle right there! Their Nosler projectile JHP Sporting/Hunting load correct? I bought some 200 gr Nosler JHPs hoping to give those a try a few years ago and just never got around to it ... please let us know what you come up with.

There are some really good ideas in this thread already ... thanks guys! Yeah, I find a factory load that I really like then I work it up and try to load a bunch of it at a time.
Click to expand...
He is currently going in a totally different direction for the last 3 months. Can't say it's near the same interest for me.
 
Airborne Falcon said:
Most handloaders have, at some time or another, tried-to duplicate a favorite factory round or load. I know I'm guilty as charged especially/only if I can get the same factory projectile used in a favorite factory load and doubly-especially if it saves me a ton of money if I roll my own in said favorite factory loads.

Some of the ones I've tried-to duplicate are ....

Winchester White Box 115 grain 9mm plinking/practice FMJs. (Used-to-be that you couldn't roll'em cheaper than you could buy them but things changed a couple two or three years ago.)

MK262 Mod 1C (long range AR shooters know about this one, Black Hills' secret sauce ... smk 77 gr w/cannelure at 2760 fps and sub MOA out-to 200 meters ... without showing pressure signs. No easy feat. It's the holy grail of handloads.)

M855 and M193 (milspec 5.56x45 in 62 and 55 respectively)

Federal Premium Hydra-Shok, 9mm, 135 (Used-to-be my EDC load in my Shield.)

SIG V-Crown 124s and 147s (were my go-to factory loads in my current EDC P365 and P320 until I met or exceeded both, but it was work)

Hornady Leverevolution in 30-30 and .338 Marlin Express (can't beat'em for levergun hunting)

So what's the one roadblock we most-often run into? Which propellant they use at the factory ... correct? I think the LEVERevolution loads were the first ones where the factory manufacturer just came-out and said outloud, "We use LEVERevolution powder in our factory loads." ... but I couldn't get duplicate results even using their new factory brass.

Which ones have you tried and how close did you get? Were there any where you actually ended-up improving on the factory load you started-out chasing? Were there any you just couldn't figure-out?

Edited: spelling and big thumbs bad grammar.
Click to expand...

I have the components to work on duplicating Leverevolution 30-30, but haven't got stuck in to that yet.

I have "duplicated" AA 12ga, 20ga, and 28ga for skeet (AA cases, WIN209, WST, WSF, and Longshot respectively). The rub is wads and shot. AA clone wads are easy to find, but the real deal is unobtanium. The same can be said for shot. What I get isn't the same as what they load in the factory.

That being said, the birds break just fine with my loads.
 
Airborne Falcon said:
Ooooooooo good one! That's a really good one to tackle right there! Their Nosler projectile JHP Sporting/Hunting load correct? I bought some 200 gr Nosler JHPs hoping to give those a try a few years ago and just never got around to it ... please let us know what you come up with.
Click to expand...

So far AA9 and BD has given me the accuracy I’m looking for. Longshot, BE-86 and 800X get an honorable mention. 800X @8.5 grains has the most accurate group but I’m sure the velocity I’m looking for isn’t there.

Won’t be able to run them thru a chronograph until we thaw out from winter here in Ohio so the numbers will have to wait until then.
 
Last edited:
AJC1 said:
He is currently going in a totally different direction for the last 3 months. Can't say it's near the same interest for me.
Click to expand...
I agree. His current interest runs at a slight angle to mine.
His 77SMK tests were interesting if a little harder on brass than I want to be.
I didn't completely agree with his processes. But it beat everything available on TV.
On the OP. I've never tried to duplicate factory ammo. I usually pick my bullet. Then look for the order that gives the highest velocity or highest velocity for the pressure. Depending on firearm.
Then I test for accuracy. If it fails I move to the next powder or bullet.
30-30 Leverevolution powder is the only thing I bought because the factory used it. And it's legitimately the best 30-30 powder I've ever used with 150RN.
 
.45Coltguy said:
Only in my now gone 22-250. Simply couldn't get H380 to work for me to try and duplicate factory loads. Varget got very close, then, sold the rifle.
Savage 112 FVS, 26" heavy barrel. Wonderful shooter. Oh well.
Click to expand...

Funny how guns vary. My 22-250 will shoot any jacketed bullet in the 55-60 grain range extremely well with H380.

Just haven’t gotten the same accuracy with monolithics.
 
I’ll buck the trend. I never have tried to duplicate a factory load. I always have loaded cast bullets right from the beginning of my reloading carreer. And I generally can’t afford factory ammo. When I shot factory ammo, I’d shoot mostly 40s&w, 45 auto and 223, and 30-30, and it was often hard for me to afford. So I shot less. Maybe a box or two of centerfire a month. So I rarely shot something I loved, mostly I shot what I could get cheap or what was available when I had the cash.

Switching to reloading has opened up a world to me of calibers I’d never had considered otherwise. It also has allowed me to save lots of money, 75% of which is from casting my own bullets.


From the other end of the spectrum, I generally won’t consider a caliber or gun that won’t lend itself to cast reloads now.
 
Nope I have never tried to duplicate a factory round, I don't shoot factory and don't keep up with what is the current cool trend. Back 40 years ago I shot a few boxes of factory out of this or that before I has fully into reloading but for the last 35 years all I have shot is my reloads with a few firearms never seeing a factory round, can't remember the last time I even shot a factory round but it was probably some I got in a trade or was given and instead of pulling bullets I decided to punch paper with them. My usual deal with factory rounds is pull the bullet and add it to the scrap lead pile, dump the powder into the bad powder jug to be fertilizer or lit on fire and remove the primer to be discarded saving only the brass.
 
Muddydogs said:
Nope I have never tried to duplicate a factory round, I don't shoot factory and don't keep up with what is the current cool trend. Back 40 years ago I shot a few boxes of factory out of this or that before I has fully into reloading but for the last 35 years all I have shot is my reloads with a few firearms never seeing a factory round, can't remember the last time I even shot a factory round but it was probably some I got in a trade or was given and instead of pulling bullets I decided to punch paper with them. My usual deal with factory rounds is pull the bullet and add it to the scrap lead pile, dump the powder into the bad powder jug to be fertilizer or lit on fire and remove the primer to be discarded saving only the brass.
Click to expand...

No reason to scrap the primer. They work just fine for less than max loads for plinking bullets.
 
Unless one is carrying a 24" test barrel ,it's AWFUL tough to " Duplicate " Factory ammo ,especially when 98% of them use Powders unavailable to the General public . There's also a SPECIFIC REASON ,they're unavailable to the General population .
When crap happens the Forensics Chemist KNOWS WHERE TOO LOOK .
 
Saluki91 said:
I have the components to work on duplicating Leverevolution 30-30, but haven't got stuck in to that yet.

I have "duplicated" AA 12ga, 20ga, and 28ga for skeet (AA cases, WIN209, WST, WSF, and Longshot respectively). The rub is wads and shot. AA clone wads are easy to find, but the real deal is unobtanium. The same can be said for shot. What I get isn't the same as what they load in the factory.

That being said, the birds break just fine with my loads.
Click to expand...
I always want to duplicate the Federal high-brass 20 ga uplands that I used for quail/squirrel/ rabbits back in the 70's.
It isn't so much the load quality...as it is the HEAVENLY smell of the burned powder.
If I just knew what powder that was......:thumbdown:
 
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