I was given a book about the AR-15 for Christmas, I won’t go into politics about that. But the inventor, Gene Stoner, was into explosives as a kid. So my question is, how much damage or what is the power of one pound of black powder, as I’m assuming that’s what he had and set off when he was age 6!
Explosive power, 1 lb black powder
- Thread starter orpington
- Start date
Lefty38-55
Member
Somewhat tough to answer … as if not contained or constrained, sure … it ‘explodes’, but does not ‘detonate’ and it as such does not have the shock and pressure wave associated with high speed explosives.
The added info from the Defense Technical Information Center lists it as anywhere from 0% to 24% (for pressure) to max 43% (for impulse) as powerful as TNT.
Wiki - Gunpowder, also commonly known as black powder to distinguish it from modern smokeless powder, is the earliest known chemical explosive.
Gunpowder is classified as a low explosive because of its relatively slow decomposition rate and consequently low brisance. Low explosives deflagrate (i.e., burn at subsonic speeds), whereas high explosives detonate, producing a supersonic shockwave.
Ignition of gunpowder packed behind a projectile generates enough pressure to force the shot from the muzzle at high speed, but usually not enough force to rupture the gun barrel.
It thus makes a good propellant but is less suitable for shattering rock or fortifications with its low-yield explosive power. Nonetheless, it was widely used to fill fused artillery shells (and used in miningand civil engineering projects) until the second half of the 19th century, when the first high explosives were put into use.
TNT EQUIVALENCY - Black Powder charges ranging in weight from 8 lbs to 150 lbs were evaluated under different levels of confinement. The TNT equivalencies for the final product were found to range between zero to 43 percent for impulse and zero to 24 percent for pressure, depending upon the level of confinement, the weight of explosive and booster, and the distance from the explosion.
Link = https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA044443
The added info from the Defense Technical Information Center lists it as anywhere from 0% to 24% (for pressure) to max 43% (for impulse) as powerful as TNT.
Wiki - Gunpowder, also commonly known as black powder to distinguish it from modern smokeless powder, is the earliest known chemical explosive.
Gunpowder is classified as a low explosive because of its relatively slow decomposition rate and consequently low brisance. Low explosives deflagrate (i.e., burn at subsonic speeds), whereas high explosives detonate, producing a supersonic shockwave.
Ignition of gunpowder packed behind a projectile generates enough pressure to force the shot from the muzzle at high speed, but usually not enough force to rupture the gun barrel.
It thus makes a good propellant but is less suitable for shattering rock or fortifications with its low-yield explosive power. Nonetheless, it was widely used to fill fused artillery shells (and used in miningand civil engineering projects) until the second half of the 19th century, when the first high explosives were put into use.
TNT EQUIVALENCY - Black Powder charges ranging in weight from 8 lbs to 150 lbs were evaluated under different levels of confinement. The TNT equivalencies for the final product were found to range between zero to 43 percent for impulse and zero to 24 percent for pressure, depending upon the level of confinement, the weight of explosive and booster, and the distance from the explosion.
Link = https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA044443
Last edited:
I can’t find it now but I seem to recall there was a plot in the 1860s to drive a wagon under the White House and detonate it while Lincoln and his cabinet were in session in a room above. I think something like 25 or 50 lbs were to be used. And yet I think one can legally keep up to 50 lbs of black powder. I only fire no larger than .50-70 Government compressed in a case behind a 450 grain cast bullet. And so, an apples to oranges comparison, I suppose.
I believe one of the bombs used by the terrorists in the Boston Marathon bombing used a quantity of black powder and a pressure cooker.
It was exceedingly deadly/effective.
To get a visual on the "power" associated with a large quantity of black powder (4 to 6 ounces) go to youtube and search "Anvil Shooting".
It is quite impressive.
How to Shoot an Anvil 100 Feet in the Air - You Have Been Warned
Gay Wilkinson enjoys blowing anvils more than 100 feet in the air. So much so that is a world champion at the activity. See how he does it, along with Riverf...
www.youtube.com
hawg
Member
A pound will throw a 100 pound anvil over 100 feet inn the air.
Steel Horse Rider
Member
So let the discussions begin! 2F, 3F, 4F? Swiss or Goex? Apparently they have done this enough that they were confident in where the anvil would land. I don't think I would have left my truck parked that close.
Jim Watson
Member
"Shooting the anvil" has been, or was, a county fair entertainment for a long time.
hawg
Member
The truck was moved before it was launched.
woodnbow
Member
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2007
- Messages
- 2,092
I’d be fine if everyone just voiced your first two phrases and left the other two unspoken.
dickydalton
Member
Eyrie G. Dogg
Member
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2018
- Messages
- 403
Mr. Orpington,
Might you be thinking of Guy Fawkes and the
Gunpowder Plot of 1605?
Might you be thinking of Guy Fawkes and the
Gunpowder Plot of 1605?
troy fairweather
Member
You should see what fertilizer or even sugar can do.
rabid wombat
Member
ANFO comes to mind… also look at grain dust….
Rustmangler
Member
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2021
- Messages
- 209
ANFO ppft try ASTROLIGHT G instead of diesel mix in nitomathane race fuel.
There was something on TV years ago about the White House plot. I’m sure that it was a plan and was foiled or not undertaken. It involved a recreation of the size of the area under the White House and a detonation and what damage would result. Searches as to this event did bring up Guy Fawkes and the Gunpowder Plot of 1605, but this was a separate event.
I didn’t know how to say it otherwise. But, yes, I agree. But that’s essentially what is happening now. The approach is you can own as many firearms as you want, the regulation is by making it difficult and expensive to get components. Many crafty folks, including myself, can cast bullets. Can’t regulate that. Brass is difficult to get often, sometimes impossible. Cannot make that at home, for most folks. Likewise, with black powder. Most cannot make that at home. Some can, and that’s not something most folks will do, and it’s dangerous. Primers are increasingly difficult to get and are regulated as to availability and, when available, an exponential increase in cost over the last few years.
But I digress. The original topic was Gene Stoner, the inventor of the AR 15, it’s circa 1930, and he sets off a pipe bomb. Compressed concentrated device. How would that compare to just setting on fire a can of one pound of black powder not compressed? Or what if Stoner had no pipe, but set off a chain of five one pound containers of black powder?
The book doesn’t go into much detail as to the damage Stoner caused with gum powder, although it states he created a hole in the side of his boyhood home with a rocket.
Maybe if you played with pipe bombs or black powder growing up, you understand more than I. All I know is what about 70 grains in a .50-70 Government case can do when fired from a rifle, as compressed 1/16” to 1/8” by the cast bullet when seating it. And firing that round, or .40-65, .40-82, or .32-40, etc.
I guess, indirectly, I’m asking the power of a loaded round with black powder vs a pipe bomb vs just detonating a pound of black powder in its original container, vs maybe 5 lbs in a pile on the ground.
Or, maybe let’s think of this simpler.
A .50-70 Government round puts a .512 hole in a paper target.
Stoner’s pipe bomb blasted a hole of unspecified size.
If I detonate one pound of black powder in its original container on the ground, what are the consequences/how big a hole blasted if any?
Now, let’s place 5 one pound containers of black powder and ignite, what are the consequences, if any, other than ignited containers of black powder?
44 Dave
Member
Several years ago when I was making an order for black powder for my self and a few friends. One asked me to get some cheep stuff for him to blow a beaver dam.
He later showed me an impressive picture of a flying dam
I had gotten him Reenactor Powder, was about $13/lb. then.
He later showed me an impressive picture of a flying dam
I had gotten him Reenactor Powder, was about $13/lb. then.
rabid wombat
Member
@Lefty38-55 hits it. Without more detail, not much more to answer. Pour powder on the ground - get a petty good show. Five cans side by side, probably spectacular - much less so than 5 lbs properly contained. In High school, a kid packed the cardboard tube off trouser hangers full of black powder from fireworks. He managed to blow a set of wall lockers out of their pocket in the wall. I am guessing that is much less than a pound with pretty stout containment. If what @ATCDoktor says about the Boston Marathon is true, you can see those results - part of the key here is the containment the pressure cooker provides. Watching anvil launching will give some scale regarding charge and containment (And seems to be great fun!)
It turns out I asked a similar question 3 years ago and completely forgot about that:
So, it appears you can keep legally up to 50 pounds of black powder and this is legal. This would last many lifetimes, so I don’t have, nor need, anywhere near this amount.
But what if someone did have 50 lbs of black powder and the residence catches fire? It seems a small localized fire could blow up the house or worse? I ask this as the thread progressed as the house of a childhood friend burned such that only a badly damaged gutted structure remains. When the father lived there I know he had black powder, but don’t know how much? And if it still was there and ignited if it worsened the blaze, or the fact the house wasn’t leveled during the fire is proof of subsequent absence of any gunpowder on the premises?
Explosive power of 1 to 5 lbs of blackpowder
From the following, obviously 36 barrels of gunpowder would have been sufficient to blow up Parliament: https://www.history.com/topics/british-history/gunpowder-plot It is routinely documented how explosive black powder really is, or is it? I think that one can own up to 5 lbs of black powder...
www.thehighroad.org
So, it appears you can keep legally up to 50 pounds of black powder and this is legal. This would last many lifetimes, so I don’t have, nor need, anywhere near this amount.
But what if someone did have 50 lbs of black powder and the residence catches fire? It seems a small localized fire could blow up the house or worse? I ask this as the thread progressed as the house of a childhood friend burned such that only a badly damaged gutted structure remains. When the father lived there I know he had black powder, but don’t know how much? And if it still was there and ignited if it worsened the blaze, or the fact the house wasn’t leveled during the fire is proof of subsequent absence of any gunpowder on the premises?
Rustmangler
Member
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2021
- Messages
- 209
My uncle had a story of when he was young and made some powder. He just mixed it and no milling or liquid so it did not work. He lit a whole coffee can full and it just fizzled.
hawg
Member
I started making my own M-80's when I was 11. In 1968 fireworks used powdered aluminum. I cut the hanger tubes into thirds and packed the ends with paper towels. I used the fuse from the center of a pack of 500 firecrackers. They were impressive. When I was 12 I got my first cap and ball revolver and buying black powder. After that it was on. I pretty much quit after I filled a pimento jar up and set it off in the lot next to the house inside a 5 pound coffee can. I had shrapnel stuck in the side of the house and shook every window in the neighborhood. It left a hole in the ground probably 8 inches across and 4 inches deep. No, I didn't get in trouble for it.
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2002
- Messages
- 22,510
Even flour mills were known to kaboom.
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2002
- Messages
- 22,510
I grew up in a major city but like yourself gave up on fireworks after I got a ROA. Blackpowder was so much better. Used to shoot it with blanks on the 4th of July and on Chinese New Year.
