Extent of workplace gun bans?

[dev_null]

Just started a new job here in Northern Virginia, for an employer with one of those zero-tolerance rules on guns (which they claim even apply to offduty LEOs). My question is whether the courts have ruled that employers have the right to extend this to parking lots/garages, given that it's not like I can stop at the gate and leave it in a lockbox. I know there was a ruling recently on a case involving AOL's policy, but can't recall right now all the ins and outs of it. I'm not looking to carry within the building, but I don't think it's right for them to force me to drive unarmed to and from work.

Am I reduced to choosing between breaking the rules (grounds for dismissal) vs travelling unarmed, or are the courts on my side?

- 0 -

 

[Kharn]

Depends who you're working for.
My job has a total, 100% ban on firearms on the facility; except for using the skeet range. But then, the guy at the gate is wearing green and there's a sand-bagged enplacement within view of his position.

Kharn

 

[Cortland]

If the company owns the property, they can ban firearms. The legal implications of carrying on company property are no big deal -- if they find out you're carrying, they ask you to leave, and if you don't (and only if you don't), it's trespassing.

But they can create whatever company rules they want, and discipline/fire you accordingly. You look at the Code of VA, I believe the preemption sections specifically state that they in no way limit the ability of employers to make rules for workers.

 

[71Commander]

I do believe that you are within your legal rights to deny any searches of your personal vehicle. If you use a company car, that's different.

Please do a thorough check on this if you intend to carry in your car while at work.

 

[tulsamal]

If the company owns the property, they can ban firearms.

That's the way the State of Oklahoma used to look at it. But they just changed the law and it takes effect in November. The basic idea was that employers that banned all legally carried guns from their parking lots were actually using their position of power to "resist" a law they didn't agree with. I have to drive an hour each way to work. If I can't leave the gun in the car, then I can't carry a gun for the vast majority of the time. And the lengthy drive is exactly when I might need a gun! If you live a few minutes from work then I guess it wouldn't matter so much.

So check with your state. I think Utah did something like this as well?

Gregg

(From packing.org)

HB2122 passed and was signed by the Governor. This new law allows Permit/License holders to carry onto private parking lots their concealed firearm and store it in their locked vehicle. The Bill States, "No person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity shall be permitted to establish any policy or rule that has the effect of prohibiting any person, except a convicted felon, from transporting and storing firearms in a locked vehicle on any property set aside for any vehicle." The law becomes effective 11/1/04

 

[PAC 762]

A lot of these workplace bans are for insurance reasons. Insurers see a possible increase in worker's comp claims from AD's and such, so they add a policy provision that the insured company must not allow firearms.

 

[Standing Wolf]

A lot of these workplace bans are for insurance reasons. Insurers see a possible increase in worker's comp claims from AD's and such, so they add a policy provision that the insured company must not allow firearms.

How come we haven't seen the names of these insurance companies? Telephone numbers? E-mail addresses? Policy language?

 

[TamThompson]

I am SO glad I work for myself!

It is the official policy of Tam Thompson, freelance writer, that gun toting is not only tolerated, but encouraged, and new purchases are celebrated! We also have a very strict policy of 100% tolerance and NO drug or alcohol testing at any time, for any reason.

Another business policy is that we aggressively pursue naps in the afternoon, whenever needed.

 

[71Commander]

TamThompson

It is the official policy of Tam Thompson, freelance writer, that gun toting is not only tolerated, but encouraged, and new purchases are celebrated! We also have a very strict policy of 100% tolerance and NO drug or alcohol testing at any time, for any reason.

Another business policy is that we aggressively pursue naps in the afternoon, whenever needed.

Are you hiring? I have no experience in nothing. Am rude to customers. Bathe only when I fall in a lake. I do have a gun or two that I can carry on the job.

 

[Smurfslayer]

An anonymous, or otherwise tip from a source not known to be a reliable source of information is not sufficient grounds for a law officer to conduct a search for a firearm in VA... You may not only refuse a search of your vehicle by the company, but, a search of your person or possessions.

Personally, if I were confronted with this situation - a strongarm request to search my vehicle, or similar, I as a "reasonable man" would interpret the actions as a common law assault, and immediately dial up the cops and summon them. I would inform the law officer that I'd been threatened, and wish to swear out a warrant in front of the magistrate.... But that's me... Even mom calls me a hard @$$

In short, yes, you're faced with a personal choice here. I would point out that if your car is broken into, on company property, you can rest assured that they will deny all coverage. This could be doubly bad if some loser makes off with your piece. Whatever your choice is, take measures to see that any valuables are secured, and don't fall into the wrong hands. Remember that if the police are summoned for a car break in which involves a gun, the company would find out a gun was in the car and taken from the police report.

Virginia also uses "constructive possession" to convict you so a concealed and loaded gun in your car, where you are prohibited counts as "on or about your person"...

I suggest a low profile, positive happy demeanor and few if any outward signs that you are a gunny until you know the people...

 

[Standing Wolf]

It is the official policy of Tam Thompson, freelance writer, that gun toting is not only tolerated, but encouraged, and new purchases are celebrated! We also have a very strict policy of 100% tolerance and NO drug or alcohol testing at any time, for any reason.
Another business policy is that we aggressively pursue naps in the afternoon, whenever needed.

Being the C.E.O., C.F.O., V.P., Sales, V.P., Marketing, V.P., Creative, and assistant janitor, I've instituted a policy that range time is mandatory, and all employees are expected to show progress in their scores or put in more range time. My people live in fear, but respect me.

 

[Pendragon]

Texas rules.

I was working at Dell which is very anti-CCW.

Now I work for a small consulting company as the lead analyst - I have not been explicitly told not to carry and one of the other guys wants to get his CHL also.

Our boss is kind of odd - things that make him uncomfortable he prefers to stay uninformed about. Besides - we are out driving around seeing clients most of the time anyway...

Of course, I do need to actually get my CHL before carrying...

 

[artherd]

Concealed means concealed...

No job is worth your life.

And leaving a gun in a car is about the most useless place I can think of to leave it.

 

[hso]

The AOL employees were fired, and the court backed the company, for having the firearms in their vehicles in the parking lot on the property owned by AOL. The guys were transferring firearms from one vehicle to another. AOL has a no firearms policy with immediate termination and it was applied to these guys.

The short version - you bring your gun in your car on their property and you could be justifiably terminated if they have a published no weapons policy. The options may include an exemption from the office manager (we have such an exemption from our no weapons policy) and the rules can't extend to the non-dedicated parking spaces of leased property (they don't own it and don't lease it). Check with the HR manager and find out if there's an exemption for justifiable reasons and explain that you shoot competetively and don't want to break any company rules by bringing your handgun with you to go to the range on the way home.

 

[Carlos]

actually, it was my understanding that the alleged parking lot was NOT owned by AOL, but they got to screw the employees anyway.

Concealed is concealed. If you have to, keep the gun in the car. DON'T allow your car to be searched.

When my last boss found out I had a concealed permit and then put a memo in my file telling me NO GUNS, I still carried concealed another 3 years before I left the cheapskate despicable monster.

 

[Car Knocker]

The AOL employees were parked in a public parking lot that leased a certain number of spaces to AOL. I have not seen anything to indicate whether the spaces were marked for AOL employees only.