Factory Headspace Higher than SAAMI Maximum?

[JFrank]

All good guys. Before I posted I figured it would go exactly like this. One or two or three people not understanding or understanding my question and speaking their mind, correcting my use of a tool and yelling at me in all caps like I can't read. You learn from every post whether or not its related to the original topic, if you catch my drift...

There are going to be those that have been there and broke that and feel they have the clout to shout down to those who are at a point where they once were.
No biggie no surprise.

I promise to help others in the future when I recognize the issue i've once faced before but I certainly wont try and make the member feel like they should have never posted the question.

I might be new (almost 2 years into) to handloading but i've been around 2A forums for the last 20 years. Its the same on every forum albeit this place is much more friendly and moderated WELL. Except for Snipershide that place is the wild west sometimes, good info + entertainment. Theres a good 6.5 CM vs .308 thread going on, its a spectacle right now.

Well I’m thankful for your thread, it’s been awhile since we’ve had a few good ones and today I found myself replying 35 times in like different threads , I’m tired and ready to bounce out.
Later guys.
J out

 

[Varminterror]

My fired cases measure 1.560 bumping it back down -.002 would set me at 1.558

This is 100% the ONLY information the OP needs for the task he is accomplishing.

Comparison to factory ammo or presuming that factory ammo is loaded to SAAMI min or being bothered that the comparator measurements are longer than SAAMI spec are all…

Much ado about nuthin’…

 

[Theinkman]

Smart, knowledgeable, had a hard time sharing it constructively.

Communication skills are not doled out equally to all of us.

 

[OFFGRID]

That's a lot of money, and you're really early in your reloading journey - what's the real value of the expense there for you? That's a really convoluted dive into the weeds that I can't imagine can ever be truly fruitful for your process.

How exactly are you determining your chambers are 4 or 6 thou over, and what are they "over"? Over SAAMI Minimum headspace dimension, or over SAAMI Maximum dimension? How are you determining how far your cases are springing back after firing to know the chamber dimension vs. sprung-back fired case dimension? ALL of that work and ALL of that money spent to own gauges you don't really need... man, you can get the same knowledge you need with way less time and expense, and frankly, have BETTER info which isn't undermined by the variability of case springback...

i think this is another one of those rabbit holes. i find myself wondering about my own head space and things because it seems im not getting very many firings from brass when FL resizing before i start noticing that little line around the case that warns of possible head seperation in the future.

i suppose i could buy expensive (mandrel?) dies and do the shoulder bump thing to increase case life but ive also thought of just spending $20 on a lee neck size die and seeing how that works out for case life.

 

[Theinkman]

To the OP-I too measure factory ammo with the comparator before and after firing. Why? Because I want to know how much the shoulder datum point moved after firing. I check the shoulder datum on my cases after every firing for the same reason. I want to know at what point the case needs to have the shoulder bumped back. That's all. But I am a numbers guy and I do find it interesting how the cases grow (or don't) over repeated firings. I measure everything. Certainly don't need to, but like to.

As far as SAAMI, I'm guessing at this point you know what SAAMI is. Their purpose is not necessarily for the end-user of the guns, ammo, and reloading components. SAAMI creates the specifications that the manufacturers of these items must follow so that the products they put out for sale to the end-users are safe and that all 6.5 CM (pick your cartridge) ammo will fit in every 6.5 CM (again pick your cartridge) rifle produced. I have SAAMI drawings for every cartridge I make ammunition for. I find them interesting but for the most part not really useful for what we do.

At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is that the ammo YOU make fits and functions in YOUR gun. Measure away.

 

[Walkalong]

As far as SAAMI, I'm guessing at this point you know what SAAMI is. Their purpose is not necessarily for the end-user of the guns, ammo, and reloading components. SAAMI creates the specifications that the manufacturers of these items must follow so that the products they put out for sale to the end-users are safe and that all 6.5 CM (pick your cartridge) ammo will fit in every 6.5 CM (again pick your cartridge) rifle produced. I have SAAMI drawings for every cartridge I make ammunition for. I find them interesting but for the most part not really useful for what we do.

Yes, SAMMI puts out specs to keep the end user safe. If the ammo meets SAMMI specs it will not only fit in properly made chambers, but it won't be too small either, not to mention the pressure will be at a safe level.

So yes, very useful for the end user/shooter. If we use SAMMI specs, they can help us produce better ammo as well, although yes, as handloaders, we can load safely for an out of spec chamber. We still use SAMMI's help there though, because all the load data follows SAMMI pressure guidelines.

SAMMI is your friend, even though many don't pay them much attention, just let them sit in the corner by themselves, which is OK, they already did their part.

 

[Varminterror]

im not getting very many firings from brass when FL resizing before i start noticing that little line around the case that warns of possible head seperation in the future.

This is an indication that your dies are not set properly. You are sizing too far, leaving excessive headspace, and cases are stretching forward to fill the chamber during firing.

i suppose i could buy expensive (mandrel?) dies and do the shoulder bump thing to increase case life

1) You can bump size with any FL sizing die. 2) Mandrel dies don’t do anything to case shoulders, nor any other part of the case except the neck. 3) Mandrel expander dies are super cheap.

ive also thought of just spending $20 on a lee neck size die and seeing how that works out for case life.

Only do this if you’re the type of person who also pays a dominatrix to take your money, tie you up, and hit you with a stick… 1) The LCD will do absolutely nothing to improve case life, and 2) Lee is the only company making that kind of die for a reason - no other high end, match/competition die shares this design, for good reason.

 

[OFFGRID]

im gonna pm you to continue the conversation. i really wanna pick ur brain on this and i dont wanna thread jack anymore than i already have

 

[JFrank]

Either that or swap phone numbers and get it first hand.

 

[Walkalong]

it seems im not getting very many firings from brass when FL resizing before i start noticing that little line around the case that warns of possible head seperation in the future.

Incipient Case Head Separation

Folks ask about how to check for the internal signs of impending case head separation and what it looks like from time to time so I thought I would post some pics. A buddy brought me some .308 brass he had shot a time or two too many. I have posted this printed pic I did in paint before showing...

www.thehighroad.org

Read this, it can help you get it figured out