outlawjw
Member
What is the quantitative difference between a standard factory load &, a match load , also factory
Factory standard vs match
- Thread starter outlawjw
- Start date
- Status
WestKentucky
Member
Advertising? Seems that they can label things as they wish.
FROGO207
Member
It depends on the caliber of ammo you are talking about. You know what kind, pistol,rifle, rimfire and the firearm this is to be used in. Generally speaking you pay more to get better components and matching them when it is assembled and the care with which it is assembled as well (consistent powder drops). FWIW match ammo in a worn out barrel is a fools errand.
Varminterror
Member
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2016
- Messages
- 14,983
Most typically, match grade factory ammo is nothing more than a match grade bullet with the remaining standard loading practices the same. It very often does, however, end up in significantly more consistent ammunition, and very often, improved consistency yields improved precision.
Varminterror
Member
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2016
- Messages
- 14,983
What ammo in a worn out barrel is not such?
rfwobbly
Member
It is my belief that with "match grade" ammo one of the main differences is that they simply slow the loading machinery down so that the powder measurements and bullet seating become much more consistent. From higher consistency comes higher accuracy.
On the standard grade ammo, you know they are running those machines as FAST as they can !
On the standard grade ammo, you know they are running those machines as FAST as they can !
fxvr5
Member
- Joined
- May 26, 2017
- Messages
- 3,285
It is my belief that with "match grade" ammo one of the main differences is that they simply slow the loading machinery down so that the powder measurements and bullet seating become much more consistent. From higher consistency comes higher accuracy.
On the standard grade ammo, you know they are running those machines as FAST as they can !
Belief, or based on evidence? Belief is easily dismissed if there is no evidence to support it.
rskent
Member
Better bullets shoot better.
Which explains why you can pull a standard bullet out and replace it with a match bullet and they generally shoot way better. (Common sense applied). Maybe not as good as if you tune the powder charge, but still, way better.
I got to talk extensively with Eley representatives at the National Matches, and at the presentations they gave to advertize their indoor test range. It was all very interesting. Eley has, shall we say, inexpensive lines of 22lr. Then they have the expensive match lines. Eley claimed that the production lines that produced the expensive "Black" box and "Red" box ammunition had more quality control measures. There were limits to a production lot based on machine and component changes. At the end of the match production line everything was tested through their test barrels. Of course the attendees at the presentation wanted to know what barrels, but the Eley representatives did not consider barrel type to be important. Which suggests to me, that good barrels probably shoot the same average group size, maybe with different lots, but that the ammunition is the greatest variable, given a good barrel. What shot best in Eley barrels got a Red label and cost $300 to $500 more per case (what's the price now, $1750 for a case of 5000?). The second best stuff received a Black label.
There are some very old coots around who claim modern 22 LR match is not as accurate as the older stuff. And of all the people to verify this, Lones Wigger was one of them. I talked to him about this. Lones earned an Olympic Gold back in the days when winning Gold was heavily advertised in all sports. Some remember when the Olympics were a proxy war between "good capitalism" and "godless communism". Lones was big, when Giants walked the earth.
Anyway, according to Lones Wigger, the standard for excellence was 152 X's in a 1600 match. It may have been shooting a 1600 with 152X. And you know, today a 1600 is sort of like throwing a no hitter in baseball. According to Lones, you seldom see 152X counts in a 1600 match with today's ammunition. I have not been looking at X counts, but I can say, 1600's are rare. I have one, have the Sweat shirt, very proud of it, want to do it again.
The lady who was shooting this, claimed it was from the 1960's
That red box hiding behind the pre WW2 smallbore prone loading block, is the current Eley Tennex.
Now based on my XTC shooting, unless the commercial centerfire ammunition is Federal Gold Medal Match, it ain't match. Federal Gold Medal match is amazing stuff. Once you flush your bank account buying the stuff, assuming you are a good shot, you will be happy. Maybe I am being too picky, there are other brands which produce good ammunition, but for decades, the commercial standard was Federal Gold Medal match. Good commercial ammunition is going to be tipped with either a Hornady, or Sierra, Match bullet. If it does not have one of these, it probably is not match.
For 99% of the "Match" stuff out there, "Match" is simply an advertising term, similar to "Mil Spec". Basically an amorphous term, meaning what the reader, or buyer, wants it to mean.
If a doughnut vendor stamped "Match" on their doughnut boxes, and brought them out to a Regional/National Match, they would sell a truck load before breakfast. The word "Match" sells all sort of things absolutely guaranteed not to have any positive affect to the score of wannabees.
There are some very old coots around who claim modern 22 LR match is not as accurate as the older stuff. And of all the people to verify this, Lones Wigger was one of them. I talked to him about this. Lones earned an Olympic Gold back in the days when winning Gold was heavily advertised in all sports. Some remember when the Olympics were a proxy war between "good capitalism" and "godless communism". Lones was big, when Giants walked the earth.
Anyway, according to Lones Wigger, the standard for excellence was 152 X's in a 1600 match. It may have been shooting a 1600 with 152X. And you know, today a 1600 is sort of like throwing a no hitter in baseball. According to Lones, you seldom see 152X counts in a 1600 match with today's ammunition. I have not been looking at X counts, but I can say, 1600's are rare. I have one, have the Sweat shirt, very proud of it, want to do it again.
The lady who was shooting this, claimed it was from the 1960's
That red box hiding behind the pre WW2 smallbore prone loading block, is the current Eley Tennex.
Now based on my XTC shooting, unless the commercial centerfire ammunition is Federal Gold Medal Match, it ain't match. Federal Gold Medal match is amazing stuff. Once you flush your bank account buying the stuff, assuming you are a good shot, you will be happy. Maybe I am being too picky, there are other brands which produce good ammunition, but for decades, the commercial standard was Federal Gold Medal match. Good commercial ammunition is going to be tipped with either a Hornady, or Sierra, Match bullet. If it does not have one of these, it probably is not match.
For 99% of the "Match" stuff out there, "Match" is simply an advertising term, similar to "Mil Spec". Basically an amorphous term, meaning what the reader, or buyer, wants it to mean.
If a doughnut vendor stamped "Match" on their doughnut boxes, and brought them out to a Regional/National Match, they would sell a truck load before breakfast. The word "Match" sells all sort of things absolutely guaranteed not to have any positive affect to the score of wannabees.
Last edited:
Varminterror
Member
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2016
- Messages
- 14,983
Read and quote the entirety of my post and you’d note I made the exact same comment. Even though there’s nothing different but the bullet, match ammo very often shoots more consistently than standard factory ammo.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
In the 30-06 I shoot either a 168gr Sierra MatchKing or Hornady Match bullet with no other changes in cases, powder or primers and the increase in accuracy is surprising. It's not like night and day because I also load quality hunting bullets but its measurable.
243winxb
Member
45 acp- SAAMI has 2 different drawings, both chamber & cartridge for match and standard/+P. I tried to compare both. The match shows a swc bullet. The others are round nose. Different COL. Other wise, not much different.
The PSI is different, +P vs standard/match. The match load velocity is listed at a slow 765 fps, but the same pressure as standard at a higher velocity. Odd.
The PSI is different, +P vs standard/match. The match load velocity is listed at a slow 765 fps, but the same pressure as standard at a higher velocity. Odd.
RecoilRob
Member
In .22lr the priming compound is one of the keys to consistent performance. Of course the bullet used is also critical, but having the same amount of priming compound evenly spread around each and every rim is *I think* a large portion of what you're paying for with 'Match' rimfire ammo. For fun.....pull 10 bullets on your favorite 22lr ammo and inspect the priming....you might be surprised if you've never done this.
I had a case of Remington's that were fairly consistent with a misfire or two per box....and many rounds that went off had noticeable differences in report. The priming compound was uneven and in places missing! Of course, if your firing pin hit that spot you have a misfire that will ignite on the second try on the opposite side where there is compound. Some had priming all the way around but only a wee bit...leading to weak ignition. Priming is the foundation everything else is built upon in rimfire and might be why many period rifles had dual opposed firing pins...increasing your chances of 'bang' instead of 'click'. I wonder why no modern guns have dual pins? Would be more reliable with bulk ammo ...probably.
I had a case of Remington's that were fairly consistent with a misfire or two per box....and many rounds that went off had noticeable differences in report. The priming compound was uneven and in places missing! Of course, if your firing pin hit that spot you have a misfire that will ignite on the second try on the opposite side where there is compound. Some had priming all the way around but only a wee bit...leading to weak ignition. Priming is the foundation everything else is built upon in rimfire and might be why many period rifles had dual opposed firing pins...increasing your chances of 'bang' instead of 'click'. I wonder why no modern guns have dual pins? Would be more reliable with bulk ammo ...probably.
- Status