ny32182
Member
You definitely aren't going to read THAT about the FAL every day...
FAL for Home Defense?
- Thread starter Fisherman12
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You definitely aren't going to read THAT about the FAL every day...
Fisherman12
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- Aug 2, 2012
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I live out in the country with a wife and two kids. My house is all brick on the outside.
It sounds like the OP just wants to get one.
I know you most probably won't use it for Home SD. A FAL owner most probably owns a few guns anyway and one of those would most probably be a better choice for home SD. I bought a DSA FAL a few months and use it primairly for shooting fun. It's too heavy and cumbersome for moving around the house and the .308 is an overkill for a perp.
I know you most probably won't use it for Home SD. A FAL owner most probably owns a few guns anyway and one of those would most probably be a better choice for home SD. I bought a DSA FAL a few months and use it primairly for shooting fun. It's too heavy and cumbersome for moving around the house and the .308 is an overkill for a perp.The only argument, put forth in this thread, that holds water is that some people think it's too big and heavy to use indoors.
If you think you can manage to go through your house with one then buy in confidence.
As a bonus you can use it on hogs, deer, etc.!
I'm in love with the 165 grain Sierra Game King Hollow Point.
I know what results that bullet gives on deer and I dare say it may do, in a pinch, as a home defense round as well...
Vern Humphrey
Member
Not knocking the FAL, but in my not so humble opinion, the best long arm for home defense is a 12 gauge pump shotgun. Mine is an Ithaca Model 37 with a 20" slug barrel.
If we want to start talking shotguns I'd bring in the SAIGA 12.
That would be pretty far off topic in a thread asking about a specific rifle though.
I know JShirley is making a joke but seriously; I am 33 years old, stand 5'11", weigh 175lbs and I have no problem with the rifles weight.
This may not be the best rifle for an obese geriatric.
If this does not apply to you then I guess you may, somehow, manage to use the FAL... *sarcasm*
This may not be the best rifle for an obese geriatric.
If this does not apply to you then I guess you may, somehow, manage to use the FAL... *sarcasm*
I hate to tell you this but by army weight standards you are overweight.
Z-Michigan
Member
I am puzzled by the weight comments. You can get a nice 18" FAL that weighs under 9lbs. The mag and 20rds adds some weight, but no more than for any other .308 semiauto platform. It might be a chore to carry through a jungle for weeks and weeks up and down mountains, but for a rifle that sits in one place 99.99% of the time and gets picked up for a few minutes one time for defensive use, it should be just fine for any adult in good health and even modest physical condition.
I've run a carbine competition with an STG-58 (1/2 lb heavier due to steel lower) and had no problems at all. I almost forgot I was using a 9lb, 40" long rifle and in fact scored quite well that day.
I've run a carbine competition with an STG-58 (1/2 lb heavier due to steel lower) and had no problems at all. I almost forgot I was using a 9lb, 40" long rifle and in fact scored quite well that day.
You kind of have to pick and choose here, you really can't have both the bolded ballistic performance and the italicized aural performance at the same time, and the ballistic x39mm performance is going to be much more difficult to get out of a very short barrel that may not affect the heavy subsonic loads as much and that give the .300 the reputation it has for working well out of a short barrel.
checkmyswag
Member
I owned a STG 58 for ten years and enjoyed the heck out of it. I even mounted a leupold scope for deerhunting and got a doe . I sold it and never regretted. The gun was too dang heavy with a full 20 rd mag. It looks cool though with how it looks but since i got my Garand HRA i m good to go.
Gtimothy
Member
FAL for home defense.....NOPE!
Just buy one and have fun with it! Mine is fun at the range once in a while but for home defense, get a shot gun or a .45acp!
Just buy one and have fun with it! Mine is fun at the range once in a while but for home defense, get a shot gun or a .45acp!
Telekinesis
Member
You're partially right, I was mixing arguments there. Only the supersonic .300 Blk has full power 7.62x39 ballistics (the subsonic .300 Blk will have similar ballistics to subsonic 7.62x39). With the rifle and suppressor combo, you can shoot full power .300 Blk and have x39 ballistics (and still use good expanding .308" bullets) and have a similar acoustic signature to firing supersonic ammo through a 9mm pistol.
Barrel length isn't too much of an issue for the .300 Blk. Due to low case capacity (compared to other .30 cal rounds) and no doubt the design of the cartridge, the .300 Blk burns most of its powder in the first 6 or 7 inches of the barrel. You don't loose much at all going from a 16" barrel to a 9" barrel. According to these velocity numbers, you loose less than 200 fps from cutting 7" off the end of the barrel.
9 in barrel, 125 gr OTM - 2,030 ft/s
16 in barrel, 125 gr OTM - 2,215 ft/s
fireside44
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A rather nonsensical objection when plenty of guys have AR's junked up to ten pounds with accessories and other guys advocate M1A's which really aren't any more trim. I have noodle thickness arms and it's never a problem, even lugging it through the woods. The rifle is well balanced and handles fantastically unless you get silly with quad rails and things of that nature. It's the finest most well used 7.62x51 rifle ever fielded and for a reason.
Not a good rifle for urban home defense but a GREAT rifle for rural home defense. I think the weight issue really goes out the window when you consider you might find yourself using it from a fixed position anyhow.
meanmrmustard
Member
By normal standards, he's built well, and can probably handle an FAL.
I'm 6', 200. I don't feel undergunned.
fastest45ever
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- Aug 18, 2012
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- 142
Game over. Get the FAL. While your at it get a night scope for it for pig hunting. PERFECT pig gun.
Since your setup for HD is likely going to be find a good wall, get some furniture in front of you, and wait the 45 minutes for the police to arrive, I can't think of a much better rifle to be hunkered down with, other then my favorites, an M1A or a Garand.
You aren't fighting a war. Suppressive fire while your buds flank isn't an issue. You are going to sit down, identify field of fire with the family behind you, and protect them until they run out of bad guys, or, if they are smart, they get the heck out.
If you want to clear the house, use something else. For this kind of protection, and the ability to go through vests, just in case you have high tech bad guys, the .308 is pretty near perfect.
I've never really understood why internet experts fail to heed the tremendous amount of experience created by two world wars, and more, that developed the technology of the .303, 7.62 X 54, .308, and 30-06, not to mention the 8mm, and the Swede 7.5 x 55. NO other rounds have such extensive research, experience, and development, with ACTUAL use on humans, and the learning curve that comes with that.
The FAL was produced by a ton of countries, in all kinds of configurations.
It's one of the few production mil rifles that would shoot with my super-match grade M1A's.
You want an FAL? By all means BUY one. You'll have the SECOND best military rifle ever produced, behind the M1A.
For the record, it's a BAD self-defense gun, as are all military rifles. However,
if you have to use your suppressed, nite scoped pig gun for home defense, it works better then a sharp stick, and it's what you had laying around.
ugaarguy
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So the M16 isn't the rifle longest in service by the US Military? Vietnam, Panama, Grenada, Desert Storm, OEF, and OIF never happened? The Soviets didn't observe the excellent wounding capability of the 5.56 NATO and develop 5.45x39 in response? I must be living in an alternate reality.
meanmrmustard
Member
General use, maybe. But otherwise, I think that distinction belongs to the M14, possibly the M40.
Your statement about Russians noticing wounding effects of 556 seems a little subjective. Where is there data on this? One could say they wanted a smaller, less recoiling cartridge with which they could hit at longer distances more accurately and carry more ammo on a soldiers person. That seems more plausible, but I've not read nor heard that the goal was to copy wounding effects.
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45_auto
Member
What's your definition of home defense?
Does it mean playing shoothouse and "Ramboing" through your dark house in the hope that the intruder isn't smart enough to hide behind a corner or piece of furniture and blow you away when you come by?
If that's your scenario, then you want something small and light (it'll also make it easier on the coroner to move it away from your body).
If your definition of home defense is holing up in a safe room waiting for the cops, then the FAL will be hard to beat. Anyone trying to come through a choke point (door) into .308 fire at across the room ranges (we're talking 3 or 4 yards here) is going to very quickly decide they need to be elsewhere. Another nice thing about it is that there pretty much isn't any such thing as cover from a .308 in most houses. They can run but they can't hide!
Does it mean playing shoothouse and "Ramboing" through your dark house in the hope that the intruder isn't smart enough to hide behind a corner or piece of furniture and blow you away when you come by?
If that's your scenario, then you want something small and light (it'll also make it easier on the coroner to move it away from your body).
If your definition of home defense is holing up in a safe room waiting for the cops, then the FAL will be hard to beat. Anyone trying to come through a choke point (door) into .308 fire at across the room ranges (we're talking 3 or 4 yards here) is going to very quickly decide they need to be elsewhere. Another nice thing about it is that there pretty much isn't any such thing as cover from a .308 in most houses. They can run but they can't hide!
fastest45ever
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- Aug 18, 2012
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- 142
The function of a battle rifle changed during the post WW 2 era.
The key functions of the .223 are light weight, high capacity, and easy to carry, not to mention the importance of suppressive fire.
The issue of how many rounds can you carry is not one in HD.
Nor is suppressive fire. In fact, the advantages of the .223, lots of ammunition, allowing for lots of misses, and tactical use of fire patterns are the exact issues which we criticize LEO for. In other words, as civilians, we need to use as few rounds as possible, and hit our targets.
The .223 rounds are designed to allow near SMG type functions out of battle rifles carried by everyone in a squad.
The absurdity that the .223 is more effective then other battle rounds is just that. Wounding capacity? With modern bullets, we nearly double the weight of the .223, keep the same velocity, and increase caliber by a large number. There are WAY too many battle rifles that allow using double the weight of the .223, with expanding bullets, at way faster velocities, limiting penetration. If you really want a .223 bullet, and 55 grains, go with the old Remington Penetrator sabot rounds. Near 4000 fps with a 55 grain .223 bullet, that expanded, or really exploded.
Great thing about those big cases is you can put LOTS of powder in them, with a little bullet, like a 120 grains, have little recoil, super explosive expansion, and reasonable penetration.
While we would never recommend using an FAL for a HD rifle, it would make a GREAT pig rifle, and, the ammunition has been proven over 75 years of so far, the worst, or biggest wars we have ever had.
By the way, this does not mean that a .223 in an AR 15 type platform is not an excellent platform for a HD rifle. With modern ammunition, it will suppress, or stop most varmits, and is much more manageable, or lighter, then MOST variations of the FAL. However, with research, you can find Galili, FAL type rifles that are light, chambered in .223, and I think a bit more reliable then
the AR 15 designs.
If I lived in the country, I would want a rifle capable of other then just varmit work.
While I'm not saying I would turn down a .223, I have currently a .22lr, 30-06, .308, 7.62 x 54R, and 375 H&H.
While not ideal, I wouldn't feel undergunned with 6 down, and 270's at 2900 fps out of the H&H. With it's brake, it makes a nice, sit in the corner and cover the door. The M44 does that as well, as does the 30-06.
When Mexico cartels invades, the M1A is the choice.
Just because it's great on wood chucks and varmits doesn't make it the best cartridge for HD. Unless your home invaders are woodchucks and rats.
The key functions of the .223 are light weight, high capacity, and easy to carry, not to mention the importance of suppressive fire.
The issue of how many rounds can you carry is not one in HD.
Nor is suppressive fire. In fact, the advantages of the .223, lots of ammunition, allowing for lots of misses, and tactical use of fire patterns are the exact issues which we criticize LEO for. In other words, as civilians, we need to use as few rounds as possible, and hit our targets.
The .223 rounds are designed to allow near SMG type functions out of battle rifles carried by everyone in a squad.
The absurdity that the .223 is more effective then other battle rounds is just that. Wounding capacity? With modern bullets, we nearly double the weight of the .223, keep the same velocity, and increase caliber by a large number. There are WAY too many battle rifles that allow using double the weight of the .223, with expanding bullets, at way faster velocities, limiting penetration. If you really want a .223 bullet, and 55 grains, go with the old Remington Penetrator sabot rounds. Near 4000 fps with a 55 grain .223 bullet, that expanded, or really exploded.
Great thing about those big cases is you can put LOTS of powder in them, with a little bullet, like a 120 grains, have little recoil, super explosive expansion, and reasonable penetration.
While we would never recommend using an FAL for a HD rifle, it would make a GREAT pig rifle, and, the ammunition has been proven over 75 years of so far, the worst, or biggest wars we have ever had.
By the way, this does not mean that a .223 in an AR 15 type platform is not an excellent platform for a HD rifle. With modern ammunition, it will suppress, or stop most varmits, and is much more manageable, or lighter, then MOST variations of the FAL. However, with research, you can find Galili, FAL type rifles that are light, chambered in .223, and I think a bit more reliable then
the AR 15 designs.
If I lived in the country, I would want a rifle capable of other then just varmit work.
While I'm not saying I would turn down a .223, I have currently a .22lr, 30-06, .308, 7.62 x 54R, and 375 H&H.
While not ideal, I wouldn't feel undergunned with 6 down, and 270's at 2900 fps out of the H&H. With it's brake, it makes a nice, sit in the corner and cover the door. The M44 does that as well, as does the 30-06.
When Mexico cartels invades, the M1A is the choice.
Just because it's great on wood chucks and varmits doesn't make it the best cartridge for HD. Unless your home invaders are woodchucks and rats.
fastest45ever
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- Aug 18, 2012
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- 142
Keep in mind it's a brick house. That means it's a built in back stop.
Overpenetration? Who cares. You don't even need to use frangible ammo with that setup. Use the best HP bullet in .308 you can find, at the highest velocity, and let the bricks do the safety check.
With such a situation the ability to turn cover into concealment is huge. NEVER use under penetrating ammunition unless you need to. In this situation, no need.
I once had a house that opened on the ocean. Entrance was over a wharf.
I didn't much care about anything overpenetrating. My sixgun had 230 grain VERY hard cast 230 grain Flat points in it, at 1800 fps, in .454.
The rifles had speer HP boat tails in em, and they are M1A's, along with two .223 AR-15's with varmit ammo, and a mac 10, suppressed, with 45 caliber ball.
They ALL worked.
If anyone came in, I'd back up in the bedroom, grab the M1A, and focus on the door and window. Pretty much a anything works for that situations scenario.
FAL would as as well.
Again, the SECOND best battle rifle.
Overpenetration? Who cares. You don't even need to use frangible ammo with that setup. Use the best HP bullet in .308 you can find, at the highest velocity, and let the bricks do the safety check.
With such a situation the ability to turn cover into concealment is huge. NEVER use under penetrating ammunition unless you need to. In this situation, no need.
I once had a house that opened on the ocean. Entrance was over a wharf.
I didn't much care about anything overpenetrating. My sixgun had 230 grain VERY hard cast 230 grain Flat points in it, at 1800 fps, in .454.
The rifles had speer HP boat tails in em, and they are M1A's, along with two .223 AR-15's with varmit ammo, and a mac 10, suppressed, with 45 caliber ball.
They ALL worked.
If anyone came in, I'd back up in the bedroom, grab the M1A, and focus on the door and window. Pretty much a anything works for that situations scenario.
FAL would as as well.
Again, the SECOND best battle rifle.
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