FAL or VEPR?

[Med 10]

DSA STG58, or VEPR K 7.62x39.

Which of these would you choose? and why?

I'm torn between the two and only have funds for one.

This will be my last rifle purchase.

 

[cslinger]

Last rifle purchase.....sure it will buddy, we believe ya.


Actually that would be a tough decision for me. I have the VEPR, no FAL.

The FAL is a much nicer rifle in terms of going out to the range and doing some slow accuracy work.

The VEPR is the epitomy of post ban AKs and is a great cheap blaster.

Mags are cheap for both.

Ooo tough call. I guess since 7.62x39 is so cheap and fun to plink with and the VEPR is pretty accurate for an AK and made really well I would say VEPR from a practical standpoint. I love mine.

Emotionally it would be much cooler to own a good FAL. More cool factor, more snob appeal, a real proven battle rifle in a real caliber. The thing is I wouldn't be able to shoot it as much as the VEPR and shooting is fun so more shooting is more fun. So I still say VEPR.

Chris

 

[telewinz]

Both are good guns but get the FAL while they are selling so cheaply. The current prices won't last forever.

 

[cslinger]

Aren't the DSA's around $1200-$1500 bucks?

Apparently cheap is a relative term.

Chris

 

[Med 10]

The STG58 surplus parts gun is roughly 900.00 bucks so I could get a VEPR for a lot less $. Money that I could use for mags and ammo.

I'm worried that the FALS wont be around much longer at current prices like telewinz said.

The VEPRk is priced at 546.00 at my local shop. Is this a good price?

 

[cslinger]

I got my VEPR II regular barrel length for about $550 right after they came out at a reasonbly pricy shop.

So $546 is probably reasonably but not dirt cheap.

Chris.

 

[Correia]

Got one of each. Not a DSA but a very nice example of a FAL. This is a tough question as these are my two favorite rifles.

The Vepr is far cheaper. And cheaper to shoot. $75 a case. That is why I've been running my Vepr in 3 gun for the last year. Surprisingly nice gun. AK sights suck, but I'm replacing mine with a Krebs AR style unit.

However if you want to reach out and touch somebody the FAL is a better rifle. Better sights. Better cartridge. (7.62x39 has a lot of drop). Better scope mounting system if that is your thing. Unfortunatley ammo is roughly double for surplus .308.

Balance and "feel" are totally subjective. For me that would go to the FAL, but different strokes for different folks. The Vepr is nose heavy, but that makes it a sweet shooter for close and fast CQB style stages. Neither one is going to win an award for trigger pull. Recoil is mild with both. Reliability is superb with both. Maintenance and parts availability are easy with both.

That is a tough call. Really kind of depends on what you want to do with it. I use both of mine, love both of them, and can't imagine being with out an AK and a FAL.

If money, now and long term is the deciding factor. Get the Vepr. If you want to think big go with the FAL. In my opinion the best MBR there is. If all your shooting is under 200 yards, you aren't losing much with the 7.62x39, but if you like to try your hand at further targets .308 would be the way to go. You can't lose either way.

 

[geojap]

I had a VEPR II and sold it. It was a very, very fine rifle for an AK, but I don't like the 7.62x39 round really. I have a DSA SA-58 right now, and it is just about my favorite firearm (it's hard to choose between it and my Garands). I'm a big fan of the 308 cartridge too. If you can afford a DSA rifle, I don't think you'll ever get the itch to get rid of it. There is something about a DSA. It's like a Lexus. All the parts fit absolutely perfectly, it runs like a dream. What a rifle.

The VEPR is cool though. It's very easy to scope with those rails on the side of the receiver. I had a PSO 8x42 scope on mine and it was wicked! It was accurate right out of the box. I could get 4 MOA all day with that horrible Wolf ammo. One thing to remember, Robinson Armaments customer service can be a little dicey. DSA has excellent customer service. I never had any problems when I contacted them, but if Alex Robinson decides he's helped you enough and he thinks you are being too picky, that's it. He's like the Soup Nazi then. No more soup for you, get out. He has told customers a slightly canted sight is perfectly acceptable because the sights can be adjusted to compensate for it.

Whatever you get, you'll like it, I'm sure. Both are excellent rifles. It may come down to the price difference between a VEPR and DSA, and also your preference of calibers (if you don't get the VEPR in 308).

 

[Med 10]

Thanks to all for the input.

I think I will get the DSA. I really dont want to take a chance on the supply getting low and the price going up.

I think the VEPR will stay steady in price for a while longer though I hear there is a very long wait for them.

I have 2 SKS's. One Norinko, and a very nice Russian tula to shoot 7.62x39 out of.

I will head over to the store shortly still undecided.

Maybe I'll flip a coin.:-}

 

[gun-fucious]

heres the entry level price point:
IMBEL
Model M-444 Light Semi-Automatic .308 Cal Rifle
Assembled by IAI Inc.

$675.00
Additional Specifications
These are original IMBEL factory rifles that have been assembled with IMBEL factory receivers, precision machined from forged steel; this rifle complies with 922(r) US Mfg. Pistol grip with cleaning kit, sear, hammer, trigger, floorplate, magazine follower and a Zero Climb muzzle break.
Manufacture under international standards and rigorous control, guarantees perfect functioning and total replacement parts.

http://www.falparts.com/firearms.asp

 

[Med 10]

Any comments on Imbels quality?

That might be an option to the expensive DSA.

Thanks for the link.

 

[iamkris]

Other than Coonan or DSA receivers, IMBEL is the way to go.

I had my heart set on the M444 from Dan's also in April, but I called them to order and they said they are out and do not expect any further shipments. That was 2 months ago. Now have a DSA STG58A on order.

 

[Correia]

I've got 2 FALs on Imbel receivers. Imbel receivers are awesome.

I've never used an M444 though. So no real knowledge. Sorry.

 

[Med 10]

Now I'm definitley gonna get the STG58A. It seems that FALS are drying up. At least for the quality ones, there is always a wait.

What makes the FAL's somewhat rare as opposed to the AR family of rifles where you can go into just about any store and find dozens of 'em?

Not to sound naive but just curious.

 

[geojap]

There will be no more M444's from Dans, made by IAI. I guess they ran out of Imbel kits.

Imbel quality is really up there with the best. It is hard to say anything is better than Imbel in quality and consistency, but likewise for DSA, it is impossible to say that anyone is better than DSA either. Imbel parts were made in Chile, using original Belgian FAL tooling, for a war that never happened. So most of the rifles were never fired much, only carried. Kits and receivers will show carry wear, but most barrels are like new and there is little or no corrosion. They are great parts with no faults really. They aren't as exotic as some of the other kits though.

The FAL parts kits that were made in several countries are really drying up. Most places have run out, and a few found some of the last piles in the back of the warehouse this week. There are only 2 places that I know of who have Imbel kits, for the next few days, most likely. They just got them in this week. Dans and Old Sacramento Armoury got a few in, and they will all be gone very soon. DSA has STG-58 kits, but they are $300. The days of cheap kits and cheap FALs are just about gone, unless you want a Century. And they just raised their prices this week. Last Fall, Buddie at Tapco said he could find no more FAL kits anywhere in the world to import. DSA makes an all Made-in-the-USA FAL, so they don't have to reply on any kits. They will always be around as long as congress doesn't ban FALs like California did. All the other FALs use parts kits. Maybe Hesse or Entreprise arms makes a US FAL, but I woudn't touch those with a 100 foot pole.

AR's are made in the USA by different companies, Colt, Bushmaster, etc. You don't have to import the kits to make a rifle. The tooling used to make the FAL parts seems like it only exists in a few places in the world. DSA has the original set of STG-58 blueprints and the tooling as well, or so I've heard. Nobody else in the USA does. Dan Coonan's company makes good FAL receivers, but I dont know where his tooling came from.

 

[Med 10]

Thanks for the info geojap. It sounds like beforelong only the DSA will be available. Anyway I inspected the bore on the DSASTG58a and it looks like it has some MILD pitting almost like it was fired and not cleaned afterward, almost looks like powder residue in the bore. This concerns me cause I know the STG58 has a used barrel.

Part of me thinks its insane to spend over 900.00 for a used rifle.

What do you guys think? for 900.00 I could get a REAL nice AR.

Man, I just dont know what to do. :-{

 

[geojap]

That doesn't sound typical to me. All of the DSA STG-58's that I've heard of had pristine bores. I'm not sure what was going on with that one. The STG-58 kits that DSA has are like new, for the most part. I can sympathize, I would definitely feel reluctant about paying $900 for a rifle where the bore looked slightly pitted.

Call DSA. They have very, very good customer service. Tell them what you want to do and what you saw in that rifle. See what they say. I'm sure they will be honest with you. You can order one from DSA and wait 2 months or so, or.......

You can get all the parts together: Imbel kit, Imbel receiver, FSE and Penguin American parts for compliance, and send it off to Mark/Gumplummer at ARS or AZEX Arms, both in Arizona, and get a beautiful rifle assembled and finished by one of those guys. You will be creaming your pants when you get your rifle back from one of those guys, same as DSA. They assemble very fine rifles, only to the strictest of tolerances and will notify you if anything is out of spec in your parts that you supplied. They can tune triggers (as much as can be done on a FAL), shorten the barrel to a carbine (included in the cost of the build), anything. But then again, there just is something about DSA.....

Many people will tell you that you can build your own, which is entirely true given enough time and effort on your part, but it sounds like you want something a cut above everything else.

www.dsarms.com
www.arizonaresponsesystems.com

I don't remember AZEX (Arizona Expert Arms) website, but you can find it by searching google or www.falfiles.com .

Whatever you do from these options, you'll love the rifle you get.

 

[JohnKSa]

Kiesler's Wholesale still has the M444s for sale. $679

Very nice rifles. I have one but haven't gotten it to the range yet...

Furniture was a bit rough, and they used the floorplate and follower in the mag as two of the US parts. I swapped out the forearm & buttstock for a set from Penguin Arms to eliminate that issue.

 

[BusMaster007]

I just read the 'last rifle' comment. Sorry, I'm really laughing at myself!

I just sold an L1A1 Klinton Sporter, one of my favorite rifles.
Felt kinda sad to see it go, but, I'm getting set to buy an ArmaLite AR10 for my .308 autoloader and had to make room.
I had a lot of fun with the L1A1 while I had it.

I was all set to get a VEPR II last year, and changed my mind.
The cartridge just doesn't flip my switch for some reason.
I'll probably want one again sometime.
This one gives me a serious woody: AR47
http://www.tactical-weapons.com/Intropage.htm

The DSA would be a great choice in a FN-FAL platform.
I'm going to go with the AR style platform, though, in the form of the AR15.com Special Project rifle for 2003.

Good Luck. Sometimes these choices are like :banghead:

 

[telewinz]

Consider getting a CAI FAL built on an IMBEL receiver. With HAND inspection you can get an outstanding value for the money $550. More than a few posters have had excellent success with the IMBEL CAI FAL's. It's worth the effort. BTW: I would NEVER buy any CAI firearms sight unseen through the mail. The gunshow is the perfect place to buy one, their are dealers with a dozen or more that you can hand select.

 

[geojap]

There is someone on the FAL Files selling a butthole stock CAI Imbel-Receiver FAL for $375 right now. That's a good deal.

"Kiesler's Wholesale still has the M444s for sale. $679. Very nice rifles. I have one but haven't gotten it to the range yet... "

----If they still have them, that's great news. Great news. If I had the money right now I would call and order one from them today. Damn summer vacation cash drains.......

 

[Med 10]

once again, thanks for all the info.

Anyone know how to contact Kaislers wholesale?

 

[JohnKSa]

http://www.kiesler.com/kieslerhome.html

 

[Med 10]

Now I'm thinking about an M4 clone. I have a few AR magazines laying around and 223 is nice and cheap, and the 223 IS a nice compromise round, and its between the VEPR and the DSA pricewise.

Whata ya'll think?

 

[geojap]

Personally, I don't like the .223 round. I know some people prefer it, but I think it's a limp-wristed round compared to the 308. It's a nice full-auto and carbine round, but if you're going to get a semi-auto rifle, why not get a full powered 308 rifle (or even a 7.62x39 which punches bigger holes and is effective out to the same range as a .223).

Those rifles need much more cleaning and babying than a FAL or AK-clone VEPR. They will jam on you more often. I've never heard of an AK or FAL jamming because it hadn't been cleaned in the last few hundred rounds.

If you want to do some match shooting or get < 1" groups, then a tricked-out AR is the way to go. They are a better rifle for those applications.