felony stop for littering!!

[cratz2]

The only input I have is concerning the posting of the rules... I doubt if the rules have to actually be visibly posted. When you utilize the range, you must understand and abide by their rules, publicly posted or not.

No doubt they do use funding from citations issued and if you left some brass and moved a target, he probably was in the right but still, it seems excessive to me.

Good luck.

 

[Ryder]

Sad but true

I gave up using state land about 10 years ago due to the DNR gestapo. Came very close to being arrested for target practice my self.

DNR laws are proclamations. State land does not belong to the people, it belongs to the DNR and they will farm you as a crop.

I've saved a whole lot of money in permits and license fees since that day.

 

[hammer4nc]

spoonman,

(Non leo opinion here) Based on your story, the response seems out of line. I don't know how much time you have to spend on this, or how far you want to take it, but I'd wager you're not the first person that's been shaken down in this manner.

You might check court records, previous actions this ranger has been involved with, etc.; public records of citations by written out of this dnr office. Could even contact other "offenders", who might have had contact with the ranger and be willing to testify. The idea is to show a pattern of behavior. I've known people who have been able to document "less than professional" behavior by having a friend positioned with a video camera...use your imagination. The rambo types are easily stirred.

Most folks just pay the fine and move on. However, it sounds like the experience conflicts with principles and attitudes you've tried to teach your boy. Fighting and winning could help reinforce those. Plus, its a shame to lose a nice range that you enjoy.

 

[DMK]

Man this is absolutely ludicrious. What is up with people in authority lately. Have they all gone insane?

I know for sure that I leave a lot more than 30 shells laying around when I leave my public range. However, I also know for darn sure that I leave it a *lot* cleaner than it is when I get there. I guess that doesn't matter though. I'm still a criminal in the government's eyes. How sickeningly sad that is.

 

[Marshall]

Under the circumstances, I would lawyer up so damn fast someones head would spin. I imagine the fine was healthy or is going to be if the dude prevails. Your lawyer will get the man on the phone and see what's up, and proceed from there.

Again, what is "the charge"? Are they going to try to get you with committing a felony while in possession of a firearm? That may be the deal you face or, did face and you don't know it?

I suggest getting council to be safe!

 

[George Hill]

Get a lawyer and sue that guy.
Arrested for not picking up ALL the brass and for moving a target?
That is bogus.
I'd sue the crap out of the officer and anyone else a good bulldog attorney can come up with.

Two reasons for doing it.
1: slap that cop's hands.
2: prevent this abuse of citizens in the future... Someone like me may not have kept his cool... and the situation could have become ugly.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong... and I'll take it on the chin. But if I am not wrong - and some jackarse is pushing is authority to get his rocks off.... Then I have a serious problem with that.

 

[Waitone]

Don't risk it. You're involved in a charlie-foxtrot and you will lose!

I've been there and done that.

Lawyer it up pronto. I'll cost some money but you'll come out without overhang.

They have no business tossing you and your son if they can't or won't tell you the specific charges.

Something is wrong here. It don't add up.

 

[WonderNine]

What the hell is a DNR officer? I have the feeling if he had tried that on me the situation would have ended very badly for both of us. This "DNR officer" (whatever that is) is not only out of line, but a complete idiot.

 

[Blackhawk]

Nice range. Tough unposted "fees". Draconian collection methods.

Think I'll stick with my not so nice private ranges.

 

[Coronach]

I'll echo the 'very odd' sentiment.

There would appear to be two issues here. The first is whether what he did was even an arrestable offense. If it was an arrestable offense, it would seem that everything was done properly pertaining to the arrest (thats so very hard to say, without having been there, but nothing jumps out at me), assuming the officers in question had probable cause on BOTH arrestees.

Now, before anyone gets their dander up, I'll be the very first to say that issuance of a summons, or simple citation, would be far preferable to arresting someone on something as cheesy as a littering offense. This sounds like a poor use of discretion, and is issue #2 in all of this.

This sounds like someone up the food chain at DNR has decided to start a crackdown on petty offenses at the DNR's range(s). When the higher-ups get bright ideas, the lower downs usually end up getting ulcers.

*sigh*

Mike

 

[TearsOfRage]

Did Officer Obie take twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against you?

 

[Sodbuster]

They'll write their own mothers a ticket if they could, because its their job.

Not one bit of hyperbole in that statement. Back when I hunted in Nebraska, we called them game wardens. One had this exact reputation. A power and control freak to the nth degree. Seems like a guaranteed way to pass through life alone and lonely. Glad the sheriff did what he could.

 

[Autolite]

In my neck of the woods ...

we call them 'Fish Cops' and I fear them more than I do the R.C.M.P. I find that these 'cop-wanna-bees' act a little over zealous at times because they're trying to compensate for the fact that they're not real cops in the eyes of the general public. There job is less important than regular LEO so they 'act' more authoritative.

 

[Gordon]

Fits the term "Mall Ninja " to a 'T'! Please get a lawyer and sue, you might get the shaft otherwise. Dig up the guys past ect. Your kid can't sleep and has authority figure issues , go the whole 9 yards for your and OUR sakes!

 

[HABU]

Did Officer Obie take twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against you?

TearsOfRage, Good one! I only get to hear Alice's Restaurant once a year on Thanksgiving at noon.

It's hard to reconcile this officer's behavior with my instructions to my sons when their peaceful and cooperative father was treated like Claude Dallas.

.....son, some cops are just pigs........ Claude Dallas would probably have shot this guy too. It was that kind of treatment that got the two fish cops killed. Claude wasn't squeaky clean, but the one fish cop was known locally as a JBT and lots of the locals weren't dissapointed he wasnt going to be harrassing them any more. Nevertheless and not withstanding, everyone is loved by somebody and its too bad (at some level) when anyone gets killed.


Spoonman, Was Officer Stadanko hiding in the bushes or what? How did he get the lowdown on you if you and your son were alone?

 

[Matthew Courtney]

Whoa, fellows, this is supposed to be the high road. A lone officer stopping two armed men requires a bit of caution. The original poster admits to behavior that may be reasonably construed as littering. Sure, an arrest for littering is a little over the top, but after stopping two armed men, perhaps the DNR officer was shaking so bad he couldn't hold a pen steady enough to write tickets.

 

[Byron Quick]

but after stopping two armed men, perhaps the DNR officer was shaking so bad he couldn't hold a pen steady enough to write tickets.

If that was the case, the DNR officer had best find another line of work. Being as about 90 percent of the folks he stops will be hunting or target shooting.

I shoot at the Yucchi WMA range sometimes. The rules are posted. The rules about cleaning up brass, removing targets, ammunition type, target material, etc. are blatantly violated. The place usually looks like a trash dump. I've witnessed a couple of guys receiving a citation. It was justified and handled professionally.

Sounds like you ran into Officer Obie for real. They are out there.

 

[Matthew Courtney]

Experience takes time.

Even a car salesman shakes a little the first time.

The fact that some people get away with breaking the rules is not a defense.

 

[WonderNine]

Sure, an arrest for littering is a little over the top - M. Courtney

Huh? Just a little?

The fact that some people get away with breaking the rules is not a defense. (for over the top cops I'm assuming you're saying) - M. Courtney

So then you must realize this is not just a "little over the top", but WAY over the top. Somebody is alot more likely to get killed over overreaction and idiocy than apathy over possible misdemeanor litter charges.

 

[Kahr carrier]

Boy that is a little too much drama over leaving brass at the Range.At my range the guys fight over left over brass left behind by other shooters.I would get a Lawyer .Hope it works out for you.

 

[Matt1911]

Wow! i am really amazed to hear so many have had such bad times with DNR.
I myself have never had one that wasn't fair ,and/or given me a break.
Guess i've just been lucky......

 

[spacemanspiff]

DNR= Department of Natural Resources

i think ours are called Fish & Game Officers. they have the exact same training as our State Troopers and i dont recall ever hearing about them overreacting to anything. seems to be real levelheaded up here.

 

[M1911]

Spoonman: You MUST get yourself a lawyer. It will be pricey, but believe me it will cost a lot less to get a good lawyer now than to pay a lawyer to try to get you out of a jam if you get convicted on whatever it is they are charging you with.

Put it this way, you can't afford NOT to get a lawyer.

 

[Navy joe]

I can't believe no one has noticed. Fish Cop is obviously not a reloader . Seriously, wear them out over it and don't back down. Keep a spare witness and a tape recorder if you talk to the boss. If you can't get him fired that way, sue the dept. Broken rule or not, you have a right to expect one american to treat you as they would want to be treated while enforcing petty rules. Don't be cowed by authority or worried about being polite, that is what they count on to make their little act work.

 

[beemerb]

I used to think that DNR officers where allso there to safeguard animals.
I was deer hunting in southeren Minn.Its bucks only for the most part.I saw a doe coming through a field with her insides hanging out.I was using field glasses so I was able to see where she went into a patch of woods.As luck would have it(i thought) a game warden drove up.I told him what I saw and told him I would take him over so he could put her out of her misery.The offer was declined.I then asked if I could go over and put her down.Would dring the doe back to him and it could donated to whoever.He went ballistic on me and told me he would put me in jail if he saw me anywhere near the are that the doe was.
SO ONE DOE DIES A LONG AND BAD DEATH BECAUSE OF A BLANKTY BLANK PERSON.
Bob