FFL dealer accepting handgun for transfer from under 21 legal owner

[Brockak47]

Can an FFL dealer accept a handgun from an individual under 21, but over 18 to transfer to another individual over 21 ?

I cannot find on the ATF site if this is legal. I am 99 sure it is, but I would really like to find the law or question answered on the ATF site.

anyone seen it on the ATF website before?

 

[NavyLCDR]

There are no regulations as to whom an FFL can receive a firearm from, only whom they can transfer them to. The only thing regarding FFLs receiving firearms is that it is a crime to knowingly receive a stolen firearm. FFLs can even accept firearms from felons and other prohibited persons.

 

[Brockak47]

There are no regulations as to whom an FFL can receive a firearm from, only whom they can transfer them to. The only thing regarding FFLs receiving firearms is that it is a crime to knowingly receive a stolen firearm. FFLs can even accept firearms from felons and other prohibited persons.

Is there somewhere I can find this info at because this FFL needs the info, because apparently he doesn't know

 

[NavyLCDR]

Is there somewhere I can find this info at because this FFL needs the info, because apparently he doesn't know

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

The problem is that you won't find a regulation or statute that specifically says the FFL can do something, such as receive a handgun from a person 18 years old, because 99% of regulations and statute define what is prohibited. Absent a prohibition on the action, the action is legal.

Best bet...call the local ATF field office and ask them if there is a statute or regulation that prohibits it, and if they say "yes", ask them which one.

Here is 18 USC 922 (b)(1), notice it only applies to selling or delivering, not receiving.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;

18 USC (j) is the prohibition against receiving a stolen firearm, notice the difference?:

(j) It shall be unlawful for any person to receive, possess, conceal, store, barter, sell, or dispose of any stolen firearm or stolen ammunition, or pledge or accept as security for a loan any stolen firearm or stolen ammunition, which is moving as, which is a part of, which constitutes, or which has been shipped or transported in, interstate or foreign commerce, either before or after it was stolen, knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that the firearm or ammunition was stolen.

 

[Birch Knoll]

It's kind of hard to point you to documentation, because it's permitted due to the absence of any prohibition.

Is there any reason this transfer is going through an FFL in the first place? Is this an interstate transaction?

 

[Birch Knoll]

http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...f-p-5300-4.pdf

Heh.

 

[Brockak47]

It's kind of hard to point you to documentation, because it's permitted due to the absence of any prohibition.

Is there any reason this transfer is going through an FFL in the first place? Is this an interstate transaction?

Yes sir interstate, otherwise I would happily cut the FFL from the equation

 

[Magoo]

NavyLCDR already responded and that's a good sign in any legal thread. His advice to contact the local ATF sounds like the safest route to me. Document/record the conversation.

OTOH, could the seller sell it to his local FFL, who would then sell it to your AZ FFL who'd then sell and transfer to the end buyer? A few extra fees here and there might be incurred, but with reasonable folks on each end it shouldn't be too much and it might eliminate any potential headaches.

 

[dogtown tom]

Magoo
OTOH, could the seller sell it to his local FFL, who would then sell it to your AZ FFL who'd then sell and transfer to the end buyer? A few extra fees here and there might be incurred, but with reasonable folks on each end it shouldn't be too much and it might eliminate any potential headaches.

Not "sell", but transfer.

While it is perfectly legal for a licensed dealer to accept a firearm transfer from anyone, some choose to only accept shipments from another licensed dealer.

The gun isn't "sold" from customer to shipping dealer to receiving dealer to buyer....it's transferred. The dealers are never the owners and have no need to buy or sell the firearm.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Best bet...call the local ATF field office and ask them if there is a statute or regulation that prohibits it, and if they say "yes", ask them which one.

...His advice to contact the local ATF sounds like the safest route to me. Document/record the conversation....

Here's the tricky part. If you call the ATF office, and someone there says everything is okay, you really can't rely on it. The ATF (or any regulatory agency) can disavow telephone advice, even if you have documented it.

Regulatory agencies all have procedures whereby someone can request in writing a written advisory opinion. If you do that, properly following the procedures, the agency is bound so you can rely on the advice.

I don't think it should be an issue in this case, because there doesn't seem to be anything preventing an FFL from receiving the handgun for transfer from someone under 21. But it doesn't hurt to be aware of the limited utility of telephone advice from a regulatory agency.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Here's the tricky part. If you call the ATF office, and someone there says everything is okay, you really can't rely on it. The ATF (or any regulatory agency) can disavow telephone advice, even if you have documented it.

Regulatory agencies all have procedures whereby someone can request in writing a written advisory opinion. If you do that, properly following the procedures, the agency is bound so you can rely on the advice.

I don't think it should be an issue in this case, because there doesn't seem to be anything preventing an FFL from receiving the handgun for transfer from someone under 21. But it doesn't hurt to be aware of the limited utility of telephone advice from a regulatory agency.

Very true Frank. I was only working it from the angle of knowing for certain it is allowed and requiring the ATF to prove that it wasn't. However, even a written opinion from the ATF is still only an opinion. It is ultimately the court/jury system that determines if a law was broken or not.

 

[Brockak47]

Thanks, so after about a dozen emails and an hour of research, The dealer just pretty much just said he would make an exception for me ugh lol

 

[NavyLCDR]

Thanks, so after about a dozen emails and an hour of research, The dealer just pretty much just said he would make an exception for me ugh lol

An exception to what?!? He can't make his own exceptions to Federal laws. Maybe he was making an exception to his normal company practices of turning away people interested in doing business with him.

 

[brickeyee]

Life is hard when your ignorant.

Even harder when you refuse to learn and move to stupid.

Is there another FFL nearby?

 

[Bubba613]

What he said.

I hate FFLs who make up their own rules and want to be shown where they can do something, rather than seeing if they aren't prohibited from doing something then it's OK.