FFL
- Thread starter dmr2400
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oneounceload
member
You buy guns wholesale and sell them for a profit or handle transfers and make money. (+)
You have to deal with the BATFE which can be a PITA (-)
You have to deal with the BATFE which can be a PITA (-)
CoRoMo
Member
Impossible question to answer as we do not know you at all. Can you operate a business? Are you organized? Have an eye for detail? Know how to make a profit? Can you make business decisions appropriately? Do you have any sales or marketing experience? Willing to learn a ton of information and follow regulations correctly?
I'd suggest that you first find out what all goes into the sausage of the arms trade, and you'll find your answer. It will either be appealing to you, or it won't.
I'd suggest that you first find out what all goes into the sausage of the arms trade, and you'll find your answer. It will either be appealing to you, or it won't.
BSA1
member
There are different types of FFL's. What are your plans?
dogtown tom
Member
What are the pro's and cons of having a drivers license?
An FFL is a license to engage in the business of dealing in firearms. if you don't intend to engage in the business you do not need an FFL.
There is no firearm registration federally or in the great majority of states.
il.bill
Member
Pros and Cons for me, or for you?
What type of FFL are you asking about? Do you realize that there are several types?
As has been said above - more info about you and your thoughts / plans would be needed for more useful answers than already given.
What type of FFL are you asking about? Do you realize that there are several types?
As has been said above - more info about you and your thoughts / plans would be needed for more useful answers than already given.
X-Rap
Member
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2006
- Messages
- 6,657
key words in bold
I have been advised that every gun you own as an FFL (including personal)
must be recorded into your book which then becomes an open book to the ATF and upon surrender of your license you submit it to the gov with the rest of the required records.
I'm well aware that it is not technically registration but i bet if you put up a poll here a small percentage would submit to offering up that information willfully.
If I could keep stock separate from my personal collection I would have an FFL right now.
The FFL Thing does not sound like a good idea to me for John Public. If I am not in a secured facility, I would not want people with the Google skills of anybody my age or younger to know my personal info, and the fact that I probably have many guns in my home. Am I overreacting here?
il.bill
Member
243winxb
Member
Con- keeping up with new laws that seem to change every month. State, Federal County, and Township zoning.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
See this from the ATF about that.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may...er-private-collection-sell-any-these-firearms
You probably should read and fully understand all of this:
https://www.atf.gov/file/58676/download
rc
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may...er-private-collection-sell-any-these-firearms
You probably should read and fully understand all of this:
https://www.atf.gov/file/58676/download
rc
il.bill
Member
The only 'personal' firearms entered in my 01FFL Bound Book are those that came from my business inventory and went into my personal collection, OR those that went from my personal collection into my business inventory. Any items in my collection not acquired through my 01FFL, whether before or after I was licensed, are no where in my business records. The personal owned firearms must be stored completely separated from inventory, or clearly labelled as personal and not for sale.
That is my understanding from my interview with the ATF folks.
Again - advised by whom?
That is my understanding from my interview with the ATF folks.
Again - advised by whom?
dogtown tom
Member
Whoever "advised" you was mistaken. There is no requirement to log personal firearms into your bound book.
Only if they are truly ignorant of ATF regs.
You need to learn ATF regs yourself and stop listening to that advisor.
That FAQ answer is not close to being accurate or complete.
This doesn't mean the licensee must log all his personal firearms. It means if the FFL logged it into his bound book as an acquisition, decided to keep it as a "personal" firearm, logged it out to himself and later sold the firearm he would be required to record the disposition. 27CFR 478.125a clearly refers to a firearm transferred from business inventory to personal collection. If the firearm is sold before one year, a 4473/NICS is required. If sold after one year, the dealer only has to record the name, address and DOB of the buyer. No separate bound book is required.
Since personal firearms owned before I received my license are not recorded as acquisitions into the bound book.....they aren't recorded as dispositions either.
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=70394195a3edf623eba7ce77a1bddff1&node=27:3.0.1.2.3&rgn=div5#se27.3.478_1125a
TimSr
Member
There are different types of FFLs. Are you going to be a dealer or just a collector? Used to be lots of people got a dealer FFL, technically had to have hours of operation, so they would list a few hours a week, and then buy wholesale, and sell to their friends. From what I understand in morew recent years, they jacked the price of a dealer's license so high as to make this impractical for the informal dealer, and even smaller gun retailers.
In the late 80-mid 90's I had an FFL for Curios and Relics. I was greatly limited in what kinds of guns I could purchase through it, and everything I brought into my collection via this FFL, I had to log through the books. I did not log previously owned guns, or guns I purchased through regular channels as an individual NOT using my FFL. The pros, I got some great deals on collectibles. the cons, when I gave up my FFL I had to send my books into the ATF, and even though we have all these government protections, I have little faith that the fact I used to hold an FFL does not immediately pop up when any federal agency wants to have a look at me, and fear that a future ban on anything that went through my books would get a federal rear end probe.
In the late 80-mid 90's I had an FFL for Curios and Relics. I was greatly limited in what kinds of guns I could purchase through it, and everything I brought into my collection via this FFL, I had to log through the books. I did not log previously owned guns, or guns I purchased through regular channels as an individual NOT using my FFL. The pros, I got some great deals on collectibles. the cons, when I gave up my FFL I had to send my books into the ATF, and even though we have all these government protections, I have little faith that the fact I used to hold an FFL does not immediately pop up when any federal agency wants to have a look at me, and fear that a future ban on anything that went through my books would get a federal rear end probe.
CoRoMo
Member
I did not know there was a fee increase. When? How much? Which FFL is that? A plain-jane Type 1 Title 1 is $30 per year; $90 for the three-year license.
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jimmyraythomason
Member
Are you sure about that? I filled out the paperwork and got finger printed for a new 01 FFL almost 10 years ago (opted not to). The cost then was $200 for the 3 year license. My 03 C&R was $30 per year.
CoRoMo
Member
Ain't a frog's butt water-tight? You better believe it.
Yep, that was the application fee. You would not have had to pay $200 again to renew the license thereafter.
Same for the FFL I was referring to... renewal is $90 for a three-year license.
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dogtown tom
Member
It's not an application fee. There is no application fee for an FFL, just the license fee.
The initial 01FFL is $200 and is valid for three years.
Each subsequent three year renewal is $90.
The initial 01FFL is $200 and is valid for three years.
Each subsequent three year renewal is $90.
Nope. An 03FFL Collector of Curios & Relics is $30 for three years.
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jimmyraythomason
Member
You are absolutely correct! I miss stated it. I let my 03 expire in 2014 after having it for 6 years. When I got my first 01 FFL, Jimmy Carter was president and it cost $10 per year.
oneounceload
member
Yep, and it jumped dramatically in order to put the "kitchen table" FFLs out of business........did that to me.
TimSr
Member
Exacty. To the guy who sold 4 or 5 guns a year at a discount to his buddies , or for himself, you rarely brought in enough money to cover your license expense, and that was its purpose.
It used to be a $1 a year under the Federal Firearms Act of 1938
http://www.pagunblog.com/2015/06/16/time-gun-control-stricter-in-1920s-and-1930s/
"After 1938 and before 1968, a Federal Firearms License cost $1. The only requirement was that you keep an acquisition and disposition record. No form 4473. Prior to that anyone could get into the gun business, no questions asked.
Until 1938, it was legal to sell a firearm to anyone. Classes of prohibited people didn’t exist until the Federal Firearms Act of 1938."
.
dogtown tom
Member
If $90 for a three year renewal was to much, I doubt you were really engaging in the business of dealing firearms.
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