Fighting Crime? Can this be legal?

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Ferrari308

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Every day I turn on the news, and every day someone is robbed, shot, raped, or abused in open view in Chicago. I know chicago has gun laws which do not allow anyone to own guns, but the bad guys disregard the laws.

Excluding chicago, in states with CCW permits, would it be legal to form a "walking group" where a bunch of guys with CCW's and guns walk through the worst parts of town, highly visible, in groups with cell phones to call the police if needed? For example, if it's well known that a public housing area is a drug selling area, why not have 15 good guys with CCW's show up for a couple weeks with camera's and camcorders and flood lights.

I'm getting sick of bad guys dominating some neighborhoods and selling drugs and making legitimate businesses move away.
 
I don't think it's illegal, as long as you're not busting in peoples homes screaming "SEARCH WARRANT!!!":uhoh: :D
 
I think the guardian angels started with good intentions, but then just kinda became another gang-lol.
It really would be a great plan Ferrari , but I'd bet Daley would try harder to put the good guys in jail(on principle). Chicago is a high priced cess pool and its getting worse-thats why I moved to wisconsin :)
 
Legal? Probably. :confused:

Unsafe? More than likely. :what:

Looking for trouble? Without a doubt. :uhoh:

Go to the wrong corner in the wrong part of town in just about any major city with lights and cameras and so on, and you should not be surprised by the reactions you get. I predict they will be less than pleasant.
 
I don't think it's illegal, as long as you're not busting in peoples homes screaming "SEARCH WARRANT!!!"
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:D :D That made me laugh pretty hard!

I think the guardian angels started with good intentions, but then just kinda became another gang-lol.
It really would be a great plan Ferrari , but I'd bet Daley would try harder to put the good guys in jail(on principle). Chicago is a high priced cess pool and its getting worse-thats why I moved to wisconsin
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My idea would be a group that is not organized. It could be a bunch of guys who all go to the same range. Maybe it could include some off duty police officers since they have arrest powers. Just imagine the monkey wrench in the bad guys plans if one night 10 guys showed up with camcorders and guns. The bad guys couldn't be stupid enough to open fire. The only thing the bad guys could do is run and hide until the good guys go away. If the bad guys shoot, I bet the whole entire police department would show up kicking in doors until the bad guys were found! Plus, until the police show up, all the guys with CCW's would return fire. Who's the better shot? A drug dealer or a guy who's been hunting and shooting at the range for 10 years?

Go to the wrong corner in the wrong part of town in just about any major city with lights and cameras and so on, and you should not be surprised by the reactions you get. I predict they will be less than pleasant.
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That is what I want to change. I don't want the bad guys controlling any part of town. The city should be free for anyone to walk the streets or eat at the resturants without fear of criminals.
 
I don't want the bad guys controlling any part of town.
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Didn't Charles Bronson try this in his Vigilante series of movies in the 70's? Things like what you're suggesting only work in hollywood. You will be looking for some major trouble at the very least, and that does not strike me as a very sound idea or very good judgement. YMMV, naturally, but if i were you, i'd have my health insurance and at least a seven figure personal-liability policy fully paid up before attempting this.
 
Moving to Legal and Political.......

Might be legal or it might not be, depending on the jurisdiction. Don't count on much help from the police who will most likely view you as wannbes at the best and vigiliantes at the worst. In many jurisdictions they would most likely find reasons to arrest you. Once you were arrested you should be prepared to be vilified in the press and have the states attorney attempt to make you out to be a group of psudo-terrorists/vigilantes/militia members.

Now you'd probably get good publicity if you left your guns at home, wore bright orange reflective vests and just went through the neighborhoods videotaping. However you have to remember that in many of the neighborhoods like you describe, those actions would be considered an intrusion.

Sorry, but you're not going to clean up society that way. Expect to quit your job and spend plenty of time in court testifying in all the cases that were made by your actions. Then don't get the least bit upset when the scumbag you just convicted, gets his probation revoked and gets readmitted to probation for the new offense.

The sad fact is that there aren't enough jail beds, court rooms, judges, prosecutors, public defenders, prison beds, probation officers, and parole officers to handle 3/4 of the cases that the police refer.

What you advocate only will treat the symptoms, not the disease.

Jeff
 
Don't count on much help from the police who will most likely view you as wannbes at the best and vigiliantes at the worst. In many jurisdictions they would most likely find reasons to arrest you.
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It's not like the group would be judge, jury and executioner. The group would not even do any police action. The whole point is to make the criminals feel more uncomfortable. If you're a drug dealer who owns a corner of town and scares all the lawful citizens, can you imagine the discomfort if one day 10 guys with CCW's show up and start recording everything that happens? I bet the lawful people who live in the area would feel much better.

I dunno, it was just a stupid idea. The drug dealers keep pushing out of the city into the suburbs, and now I see some of them in my neck of the woods. I just don't want my town to become like some crappy inner city neighborhoods.
 
I hate for my first post on the site to be negative, but I guess I don't have a choice. If you put a group together like that, and went looking for the BGs of the world, you would find yourself in more trouble than you know what to do with.

The purpose of a CCW is to defend yourself. It is not a police badge, it does not give you the right to go looking for trouble. When you go to the bad guy, carry a gun, and take an action that will cause a harsh reaction from the people you are targeting- you will be seen as an instigator. If you end up shooting one of the criminals, be expected to be charged with manslaughter at the very least. Many would argue for Murder 1 in such a situation.

Also, without the level of training that a police officer receives, you would be putting yourself in a very bad situation. It isn't like the movies, the bad guys may run, they may stay right where they are, or they may start fighting. In the real world the bad guys have bullets, those bullets can kill you, and they aren't afraid of ambushing you or shooting you in the back.
 
Vigilante Team Alpha! Assemble!

Me, I'll be the guy in the magenta cape, metallic blue hot pants, sharkskin cowboy boots, and twin hardchromed Deagles in crossdraw rigs. Nope, no shirt in case you're wonderin'.
 
Illinois, chicago especially, would never allow such a thing.

Presser v. Illinois comes to mind and I would assume that this would be used against us.
 
Fighting crime?

"Fighting crime" is a politician's fallback position when competence comes into question. It's the whole system's meal ticket. Citizens will not be allowed to come up with anything effective.

There's a reason the system is borken. That's how those in power want it to be.
 
Yup. It causes a crisis and a crisis causes fear and without fear a politician could not motivate any right thinking, normal person to give him, disgusting creature that he is, any power to, he lies, change things.

So again we see just how much politicians resemble vampires, parasites and other loathsome creatures that feed off of healthy individuals.
 
So a dozen guys with CCW licenses show up in the 'hood with cameras and lights.

First time, you'll be ignored.

Keep it up, and after a week or so expect to be sniped at by some homie with a deer rifle (or even a .22) from a block away.

Cops will grab YOU for "creating a disturbance" or some such.

A couple of decades ago, when black children in Atlanta were being murdered by a black guy named Wayne Williams, caring black parents from the area started gathering in groups with sporting goods (i.e., baseball bats) and walking their kids to school, watching them at the playground, etc.

Atlanta's "leaders" expended more police man hours harassing these groups of "vigilantes" than then did looking for the child killer, and had the chutzpah to say these parents were interfering with the investigation by diverting police resources. :barf:

Imagine what the liberal politicians running a major city - and their willing lackeys in the press - would make of CCW holders patrolling the 'hood.
 
While it may sound like a good idea in principle (and I've had similar thoughts myself), around here it would be a really good way to get DEAD... The BGs have more firepower than the CCW holders...And they have NO qualms about using it. Even with 10-12 guys in your "posse", you'd be seriously outnumbers in some of the worst neighborhoods.
 
It's a great idea, and can/has worked in many areas. But it won't ever be allowed to work. If you eliminate the problems, the politicians won't have justifications for raising taxes. And the police don't want the competition.
 
Ferrari308 said:
Every day I turn on the news, and every day someone is robbed, shot, raped, or abused in open view in Chicago. I know chicago has gun laws which do not allow anyone to own guns, but the bad guys disregard the laws.

Excluding chicago, in states with CCW permits, would it be legal to form a "walking group" where a bunch of guys with CCW's and guns walk through the worst parts of town, highly visible, in groups with cell phones to call the police if needed? For example, if it's well known that a public housing area is a drug selling area, why not have 15 good guys with CCW's show up for a couple weeks with camera's and camcorders and flood lights.

I'm getting sick of bad guys dominating some neighborhoods and selling drugs and making legitimate businesses move away.
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Ferrari: What you propose is an excellent idea; every citizen should support such patrols and donate time, money, and staffing to make such a proposal for every American community...

However, here in America, we do things much different... here... you see...we tolerate the criminal element, police ignore the crime, judges release the ciminals, and citizens that form such patrols would be arrested.

Until Congressmen's children are gunned down, or Congressmen's wives are raped, or Congressmen's cars are stolen, little happens in response to local crime. That's the American way!

:(

Approximately 500 people, +/- a few, are killed on the District of Columbia streets each year... this has been going on for decades... if one of those dead was a Senator's son, or a Congressman's daughter, don't you think something would be done?

Solutions to crime depend upon the victim's identity... sad but true fact of life now...
 
i think the key, as with all things, would be the marketing. you build a constituency and open dialogue with the press before your project starts, put a good face on the whole thing, and i'd like to think there's a chance in some parts of the country. not chicago, but some places. i would divert attention away from the gun side of it though, and just say it's an active or dynamic neighborhood watch. i'd also like to agree that the i'd like to think the criminals would be too stupid to send the first volley downrange... some of the actions surrounding katrina suggest otherwise, like the bunch of clowns that engaged the caravan of contractors, but that may have been an indulgence of the circumstances and lawlessness there, hopefully atypical. who knows. it would be nice to have that power to touch a neighborhood though.
 
Ferrari, have you ever even been in a "bad" part of town?

The sickness that permeates much of innercity America isn't caused by the drug dealers. The dealers and criminals are just a symptom of a much bigger problem.

You would get shot. That simple. And yes, they are stupid enough to shoot at you. A lot. And volume makes up for marksmanship.

Even if you accomplished your goals, a week after you left, the projects would go back to being the projects.
 
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