You're confused. I don't overstate or walk back. If you think that energy is a proper measure of a cartridge's terminal effectiveness, I can see why my comments might be seen as "obnoxious" but that is not the intent. You're trying really hard to deflect.
Here's a general statement from +30yrs of study and observation (handgun hunters tend to pay attention to what EVERY bullet does). Handgun bullets of a comparable construction, with a sectional density of .25-.27, driven to 1200-1350fps, all tend to behave the same on critters. Whether it's a 355gr .44, a 360gr .45, 430gr .475 or 500gr .500. They all break bones and penetrate about the same. Despite that the upper end has 25% more energy than the lower end. The larger diameter bullets simply make a bigger hole. They're all capable of taking the same critters. The same critters t hat are unted with big bore rifles producing gobs more energy. This leads one to question the validity of using energy for that purpose.
Given that I've seen it happen, I'd say I'm in a pretty good position to answer it. You guys are very resistant to ANY information that conflicts with your beliefs.
I've read it before. Totally different context and not relevant. You think it supports your position, I don't. You don't think I've heard every argument for energy? Please.
And yet you still won't touch this. Why?
Yes, I did "touch this" at the end of my long post at 10:48. Either reading comprehension ain't your thing or... I don't know what your problem is. Try reading that post again. Since you won't read that post again, and I'm not sure you've read much of anything because you keep misstating the arguments I and others have put forth, I'll spell it out very clearly for you:
1. The lighter bullet in your example is not always the best choice for a job. It is particularly not the best choice when you want very deep penetration. The Army's extensive testing and the physics, which they summarize in the link, indicate that penetration is greater when a projectile has greater mass, sectional density, and residual velocity (velocity after it has perforated the skin). This means that momentum, as Varminterror has been referencing, is the best indicator of how far a given projectile will penetrate. Therefore, large diameter, high sectional density (these two mean the bullet is also heavy) are going to be best choice when you really need penetration. Even in this case - more velocity is better. Momentum = mxV.
2. Energy is what does work. Again, as I wrote in that long post that you didn't read, presumably because you already know everything, some or all of that bullets energy is transferred to the animal. Varminterror may prefer the word "used" rather than transferred, but nevertheless, it is the energy that may cause damage to tissue. It does so via four mechanisms: cutting, stretch and shear, compression, and "heafiny" (heat energy transfer). I will admit that heafiny was a new word for me, I never ran across it in any of my physics or engineering classes (Yes, Varminterror, you are not the only person on this board that is or has worked as an engineer and used physics in their job). According to the Army, heat transfer is the least important of the four mechanisms.
3. High velocity bullets and low velocity bullets create fundamentally different wounds. You may not like that, but it is true, again according to the Army that has not only tested these rounds in gelatin, soap, pigs, and dogs, but also x-rayed and autopsied soldiers KIA (again, examples of all of this is in the linked chapter). Low velocity bullets leave a wound tract that is only slightly larger than the bullet diameter. High velocity rounds create a wound tract that is larger, and potentially much larger, than the bullet diameter.
Finally, nobody in this thread wants to take your precious handguns away from you. I'm glad you enjoy handgun hunting and within that domain, really big and really heavy are most important, although velocity does matter (there is a reason a 230 gr .45 acp at 850 fps is considered inadequate for hunting but a 240 gr .44 rem mag @ 1,300 fps is considered excellent). But the OP asked about two rifle rounds, not which handgun cartridge to use. The very high energy numbers that we see in rifle rounds can create substantially larger wounds than handgun rounds, if the correct bullet design is used.
Edited to make clear that the 240 gr @ 1,300 fps I reference is a .44 remington magnum.
