Fire forming .30-06 cases

[sweater914]

Hi Folks,

I have some virgin Winchester brass that I'd like to fire form to my rifle's chamber, without having to load and shoot live rounds. I'm not trying to change the brass to a wildcat round, I'm just trying to save a little on powder, bullets, and a couple of visits to the range.

Can somone provide me an idea of what kind of powder and charge weight I would use to fire form the brass and what I need to keep the powder from falling out?

I tried a search without much luck.

Thanks

 

[ranger335v]

You don't say what "fireforming" is supposed to have on your loads but it won't be much; load and shoot it normally.

 

[rcmodel]

Load them and shoot them.

You wouldn't need to fireform Black Hills or other Match ammo the first time you shoot it would you?

rc

 

[Canuck-IL]

I'm just trying to save a little on powder, bullets, and a couple of visits to the range.

Anything other than normal new brass prep, then load and shoot will be a waste.
/Bryan

 

[sweater914]

Thanks for the replies guys, I'm getting into rifle reloading a little more in depth and this hasn't been discussed a big way. I just bought a Redding Competition Neck sizer with a couple of bushings to avoid full length resizing and hopefully produce more accurate ammo.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I'm reluctant to give a powder charge...but I believe some Unique under a tuft of toilet paper rolled into a "bullet" would do the trick...

But wait until you get some better info on the powder charge before you try it...there is somebody here who has done this, I just can't remember who...I do believe it was one of the "30-06 guys" though...maybe even Art, but I'm not sure...I just remember reading it somewhere on here not long ago.

EDIT: Somebody musta photoshopped my photographic memory, LOL...because I had it all wrong, none of the guys I was referring to even replied to that thread...but it still contains some info you may find useful.

I found the thread I was referring to... maybe one of these guys can help... http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=597329&highlight=30-06"+"toilet+paper

 

[rcmodel]

Once again, I have to ask WHY bother??

Just Load them and Shoot them!
Then neck-size them in your fancy Redding die and shoot them again.

I have never bothered to fire-form new brass to a standard caliber rifles chamber in 50+ years of reloading. And I have owned or built some pretty darn accurate rifles over the years if I may say so.

Unless your rifle has excess headspace, or a wildcat non-standard chamber, there is no reason too.

rc

 

[USSR]

As has been stated, just load them and shoot them. Then, if you want some advice on reloading the once-fired .30-06 cases using the Redding Competition bushing dies, PM me, as I have been doing it for many years.

Don

P.S. - With Winchester brass, you will probably need a .331" bushing.

 

[redneck2]

I fire form brass for a custom chambering in .35 cal.

To answer your question, I use about 8-10 grains of Titegroup or similar pistol powder. Fill the case with Cream of Wheat to the neck. Wet some paper towel and put it in the neck. Make sure to keep the cases upright as much as possible so the powder doesn't shift. Firing is as loud as a pistol, so use hearing protection.

That said, I agree with the others and wonder why the time and mess. Typically you're not gonna gain enough to justify the time and mess, but it's your gig.

 

[TheCracker]

I agree with others. Just load them like normal and shoot. Then neck size.

Bullets are the most expensive part of your round not counting brass.

I personalize have seen accuracy a tad better with neck sizes dies, just a tad though. I neck size for ease and case life!

 

[sweater914]

As has been stated, just load them and shoot them. Then, if you want some advice on reloading the once-fired .30-06 cases using the Redding Competition bushing dies, PM me, as I have been doing it for many years.

Don

P.S. - With Winchester brass, you will probably need a .331" bushing.

That's one of the two bushings I purchased and used it on some R-P brass. I'm becoming a fan of neck sizing, so much easier that full length sizing without having to mess with any lube.

The recipes I used worked really well, accurate and consistent, but the smuck behind the trigger could be more consistent.

 

[Walkalong]

Since you are not really fire forming as such, follow rcmodels advise and just shoot them.

How to fire form cases will get you many different opinions, and would make for lively debate.

 

[kingmt]

8gn of Bullseye & a square of toilet paper. Fold the square twice the same direction & roll it to push past the neck. It will iron the case to the shape of the chamber. Since your brass is already the shape of your chamber just FL them controlling headspace.

 

[sweater914]

I loaded all 50 cases, practice ammo with IMR4064 and 150gr Hornady FMJBT bullets. Trying to minimize the use of the more expensive Hornady Interbonds I have on the shelf.

I'm doing this for a buddy of mine, I have his rifle and I'm trying to cook up the most accurate hunting load I can with the given equipment. His ex father-in-law handloaded some ammo for him but the recipe slip wasn't complete. Given what I saw in the re-used ammo containers I know I can do much better.

 

[fguffey]

Sweater914, I am not the fire former, I am not the one that suggest the best investment is another die that someone claims you need, I am the big fan of getting the most use out of the tools I have.

Three of the best shooting rifles I have I purchased for parts, an M1917 30/06 Remington, the ugliest rifle as advertised for $120.00, the rifle was built to eliminate all the reasons/excuses for patterns, the rifle shoots very small groups with ammo out of the drawer. Not a problem for me but when the rifle came up for auction the reloading forms lit up, with the exception of a few it seems everyone was trying to make themselves look good at the expense of the builder, ME? I could not see how someone could build a rifle that ugly without knowing what he was doing, something like building a bench rest rifle with an investment of $100.00 plus time.

Point? I would first determine how accurately the rifle shot ammo out of the box, I would measure the length of the cases (from the shoulder/datum) first before firing and again after firing.

And again, I would determine the length of the chamber first from the face of the bolt to the shoulder of the chamber.

I purchased a Remington 03 before A3, the rifle came from Sears with two boxes of R-P ammo, the barrel was stamped Santa Fe of California, without a scope little could be gained by tweaking the ammo or changing dies, I purchased the rifle for a build, I have an 03A4 barrel chambered to 308 Norma mag with air brake. I purchase the rifle at The Big Town Gun show from an individual that purchased it from Sears in the early 60's.

If you have shot the rifle there is information that can be gained from the fired cases.

F. Guffey

 

[gamestalker]

When I'm forming brass I use a load that produces normal operating pressures. Then just neck them and load again. Nothing about fire forming brass requires additional steps.

 

[quartermaster]

You could have given the virgin brass a good thorough prep and started working up loads with them. Are you figuring on saving money by not using your good components until you have fire formed your brass? It seems to me that you wasted a lot of money and some barrel life by doing that. You would have had a good start knowing what bullet/powder your rifle likes and then tweaked everything a bit on your next loading.

I will grant you that some of my best accuracy comes with the second shooting after fire forming, but one can get some accurate loads if care is taken in load developement in your initial workup. Who knows, you may have to load them up again before you find your perfect load

Your brass might grow .012 + in length after fireforming. That's the thickness of 3 dollar bills. Not a significant amount to worry about if you look at it that way.

As far as your original idea of fire forming with a pistol powder and TP and whatever you decided to use for a filler, what you save in bullets and powder wouldn't have been worth the time invested in doing it and you wouldn't have learned anything. As everyone else suggested shooting them is the most efficient way to go and learn something about your rifles likes and dislikes as you go. Don't just pound rounds down range. Just my HO

Good Luck

 

[brickeyee]

The biggest thing will be is the rifle accurate enough you will be able to even tell?

 

[sweater914]

I do have a load that shows promise, the barrel is nearly virgin. My buddy told me he had fired in the neighborhood of 50-75 rounds through the gun. I've put at least that many rounds through the gun in 2 weeks.

The pratice wasn't wasted I've become more accustomed to the trigger and worked on my bench shooting, seems simple but shooting from a sandbag still has some human variables that cannot be totally eliminated only minimized.

I feel a bit under the gun as it were, deer season is still months away but my airline job keeps me away from home 2-3 weeks a month. Trying to develop, test, evaluate, and re-test loads can be time consuming when you're not at home. Forgot to mention somewhere in there I'm a dad, husband, and my shooting/projects need attention.

I'm shooting for 1 MOA or less at 100yds, my first batch of tests yielded 2 loads that showed promise at 1.5 MOA with some fiddling of the scope. The whitetail won't care, it's minute of Bambi already.

 

[kingmt]

That goal should be easy to reach with most guns without special attention. I can get that good with about anything I throw together.

I don't know what you already know but work on basics. Aim small, turn up the scope, controlling your breathing, don't hold your breath, keep your eye on the target, squeeze trigger slowly, & so much more but I don't want to overload you. You can practice these in your living room just make sure it is unloaded.

 

[GP100man]

For complete reliable feeding my hunting ammo gets full length resized !