Firearms restricted on federal property?

[JohnnyK]

so I wanted to take the fam to a local park Bear Creek Park and the War Memorial in the Houston area... notice these are local parks... and there are signs at the entrance of both stating "Warning: federal area firearms restricted"... I know they are local parks and there isn't a 30:06 or 30:07 sign which is the official state signage.. I've never known these areas to be federal lands.. they are recreational areas built on flood plains... I didn't take a pic of the sign and haven't seen any similar on google... anyone else seen signs like these? is there such a restriction on federal lands? :banghead:

 

[pintler]

1)There is no general ban on all federal land. Lands managed by the Forest Service, BLM, and Park Service are in general open to carry (and FS/BLM lands are frequently open to recreational shooting).

2)N.b. buildings, even e.g. Forest Service buildings, are commonly posted, and that posting has the force of law.

3)Bear Creek seems to be administered by the Corps of Engineers. I don't keep up with it because I'm not around Corps land often, but they seem to forbid guns. The situation might be in flux:
http://www.guns.com/2015/02/02/bills-filed-to-lift-army-corps-of-engineers-ban-on-guns/
http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2014/01/injunction_agai.php

Again, I don't keep up to date on this - just things for you to research.

4)I'm not from Texas; some states might have general 'no guns in parks' rules that might supersede the usual rules. Or, perhaps more accurately, I think the usual federal rule, where carry is not prohibited by the feds, is 'we follow local law'. So if local law says you can't carry in parks, I don't think you can carry in federal parks.

IANAL, and only closely follow things that actually affect me, so I might be all wet.

 

[david58]

Seems the Corps of Engineers likes to prohibit firearms. Saw Corps facilities (launch ramps, etc) in Oregon posted regularly.

David

 

[JohnnyK]

funny thing is that I've been going to these parks for well over 30 years and today was this first time I saw any kind of anti gun sign on these properties... there are no signage stating Army Corps of Engineers that I've seen as usual on their properties... could it be these signs are just as useless as the ghost busters signs with the gun in the circle with the line thru it?

 

[JohnnyK]

the only state signage that applies is the 30:06 no chl sign and the 30:07 no open carry neither are posted...

 

[Apachedriver]

the only state signage that applies is the 30:06 no chl sign and the 30:07 no open carry neither are posted...

I had the same question a while back about some parks on US Army Corps of Engineer property up my way. 30.06/30.07 doesn't apply on federal land.

It appears your local park is on (Addicks Reservoir) land leased by Harris County from the US Army Corps of Engineers.

e-CFR data is current as of March 14, 2016

Title 36 → Chapter III → Part 327 → §327.13

Title 36: Parks, Forests, and Public Property
PART 327—RULES AND REGULATIONS GOVERNING PUBLIC USE OF WATER RESOURCE DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS ADMINISTERED BY THE CHIEF OF ENGINEERS

§327.13 Explosives, firearms, other weapons and fireworks.
(a) The possession of loaded firearms, ammunition, loaded projectile firing devices, bows and arrows, crossbows, or other weapons is prohibited unless:

(1) In the possession of a Federal, state or local law enforcement officer;

(2) Being used for hunting or fishing as permitted under §327.8, with devices being unloaded when transported to, from or between hunting and fishing sites;

(3) Being used at authorized shooting ranges; or

(4) Written permission has been received from the District Commander.

(b) Possession of explosives or explosive devices of any kind, including fireworks or other pyrotechnics, is prohibited unless written permission has been received from the District Commander.

[65 FR 6901, Feb. 11, 2000

Hope it helps.

 

[Art Eatman]

Federal restrictions on federal property have precedence over state laws.

 

[mdauben]

Seems the Corps of Engineers likes to prohibit firearms. Saw Corps facilities (launch ramps, etc) in Oregon posted regularly.

David

I thought this policy was changed by the feds recently. I would check with the USACE office to confirm that, however.

 

[AlaskaMan]

On Feb 22, 2010 A law signed by President Obama took effect. It was called the Credit Card Accountability Responsibility and Disclosure Act.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/hr627/text

Under sec 512 of that law the Secretary of the Interior was required to allow the carriage of firearms in compliance with the laws of the state in which the NPS unit or refuge was located in. As many refuges and NPS units are located in more than one state, this can be a challenge.

The new law states that NPS areas will follow the laws of the state in which they are located with regard to the carrying and possession of weapons on park lands, except for designated areas.

In general, if it is legal in the state, it is legal on NPS/USFWS lands. Please note that federal facilities remain unchanged (prohibited). The carriage of weapons is all that was addressed. The use/discharge remains generally prohibited, and includes target shooting.

This only applies to Dept of Interior lands, not Army Corp of Engineers (they are DOD)

 

[kitsapshooter]

The federal government is not allowed to own land outside of D.C. with the exception of the following.
for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings.
A Ranger station may fit the bill but a boat ramp or other recreation area does not.
It is a small but significant point.

 

[pdsmith505]

If you've got the coin to fight that one up to the SCOTUS, please do.

But, for now, the reality is that the Federal Government DOES own land beyond those listed.

 

[coloradokevin]

Exactly. Federal law supersedes state law, whether we like it or not.