First 5.56/.223 Purchase

[Good Ol' Boy]

As I've mentioned before I'm not new to guns, but my history (20+yrs) is limited to numerous pistols, bolt/semi rifles and your run of the mill shot guns.

I've been wanting an "AR/M4" style rifle for a while now and now that I've (for now) got my modern pistol collection where I'm satisfied, am ready to seriously start looking at my first modern long gun buy.

All I'm looking for is something to get me in the door, cheap but functional, that I can add some basic accessories to if I want. To give you an idea of what I've been looking at and price range here are these....


http://www.impactguns.com/core15-m4...ack-hard-coat-30-rd-mft-mag-707137964846.aspx

http://www.impactguns.com/smith-wes...-assist-dust-cover-30rd-mag-022188868104.aspx

http://www.impactguns.com/dpms-orac...rdus-collapsible-stock-flattop-30-rd-mag.aspx


Any advice on brands to avoid or jump on in that price range would be appreciated.

Also, what might seem like a novice question, I've done a lot of research on shooting .223 through a 5.56 and visa versa and am still not sure of what "right" is. The marketing for these guns is less than specific on that topic. Any advice here would also be much appreciated.


Anything anyone else can think worthwhile to add feel free. This won't be an immediate purchase but it'll be before November you can count on that.



Thanks in advance, Jon

 

[Reloadron]

Congratulations on your decision. Years ago buying an AR was simple, today a few dozen manufacturers make and market AR variations followed by several dozen more selling parts and kits. Mine happen to be Colt manufacture with one being a Double Star. Not going to say Colt is better as they were what I ended up with at good prices when friends needed money.

That said, of those you mention, I would consider the S&W gun. I only mention S&W because the majority of forum members who have posted about them have been favorable post. Them seem reliable and good shooters out of the box which is what I suspect you want. So the S&W gun has my vote.

Ron

 

[md7]

Lots of good options in the market. Generally, my favorites for a basic AR is a Colt 6720/6920 or a BCM standard mid length if you want something other than carbine gas. That's just a personal preference, and food for thought.

Of those you linked, MP15. People that have them seem to be very pleased with them.

Regarding chamber. Generally, a 5.56 chambered rifle will be ok to shoot 5.56 NATO and .223 Rem. A .223 chambered gun is ok for shooting .223, but not recommended to shoot 5.56

Whatever you end up with, buy a dozen or so good mags and as much ammo as you can. These rifles are a lot of fun.

Good luck.

 

[Krusty783]

The AR market is saturated with brands, both selling complete rifles and companies selling parts or kits you can assemble yourself. S & W and Core15 are fine companies as far as I know. So are Daniel Defense, Stag, BCM, FN, Ruger, Sionics, CMMG, Del-ton, DPMS and RRA to name a few other companies in the AR game. Besides brand preference and obvious build quality there are really only a few key things to look for in an AR:

-A Bolt Carrier with a properly staked gas key
-A Bolt (bolt + bolt carrier = Bolt Carrier Group or BCG) that is shot-peened, High Pressure Tested, Mag Particle Inspected and preferably made from carpenter 158 steel.

-Either rifle or M4 feed ramps in both the barrel extension and upper receiver. Ramps in the barrel only is okay, but ramps in the upper and not the extension is bad: Google images of M4 feed ramps.

- 1/7 or 1/8 rifling is good for 95% of the bullet weights out there. 1/9 rifling is available but only advisable for lightweight bullets (might have that backwards but my rifles are all 1/7 twist)

5.56 NATO chambers can handle .223, but 5.56 in a .223 is supposed to be a no-no. There's a hybrid .223 wylde chamber that is compatible with both rounds and is rumored to be more accurate but in reality your skill will matter 10x more than whether you have a 5.56 or .223 wylde chamber.

- Also, I suggest a mid-length gas system unless you're looking for an SBR or an M4 clone build. The recoil impulse is a bit longer due to the increase length and more importantly the handguard is longer making better ergonomics for most people (assuming you want to keep a front sight and hand guards. You can always swap out for whatever size free float rail you fancy).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.

 

[ontarget]

I have the DPMS Oracle. I have been happy with it and it is rated 223/556. The rifle does not come with a front site which may not matter to you depending on what optic or site system you choose. I've never had a malfunction with it and I do shoot brass and steel cased ammo.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Thanks for the advice so far guys. I have some more research to do it seems.


I'm still confused on the chambering though. If a rifle for sale states 5.56/.223 how do you know what it is "predominately"? Or should I just plan on shooting .223 either way since that seems a safe bet?

This is the exact kind of conflicting info I've gotten when researching...

 

[md7]

Generally, a rifle that is marked as 223/5.56 simply uses a 5.56 chamber as that chamber can fire either cartridge without issue.

Bad example, but maybe this'll help you get the idea...... You know a .357 magnum revolver is chambered for .357 magnum. However, it'll also safely fire .38 spl. Either caliber is fine to shoot in the .357 chamber. You cannot, however, fire .357 in a .38 spl revolver.

It's sort of like that.

 

[ontarget]

At the moment there is no shortage of either 223 or 556. That may change in the coming months but for now you are safe either way.

 

[CapnMac]

At that price range, you could also look at the Colt 6920 or the 6720

Tat is unless you are keen on not having a front sight like that DPMS. Which can make it easier to use a reflex sight and fold-down BUIS.

But not that big a deal if using ACOG, ECAN, or the like.

 

[wanderinwalker]

Of the options linked in the first post, I'd take the S&W. They have a good reputation for working properly right out of the box.

Open up the price range a couple hundred dollars more and I pick a Colt 6920 or 6720. My rifle is a 6920 topped with an Aimpoint PRO red dot sight. Reasons I wanted the Colt:

1) Chrome-lined, 5.56-chambered 1-7" twist barrel. I can shoot any 5.56/.223 ammo and reload any bullet type I can get my hands on.

2) Mil-spec dimensions. I wanted mil-spec parts because replacements should be thought-free plug-and-play. Take advantage of modern mass manufacture techniques.

3) Fixed front sight tower. This is just a matter of simplicity. It won't come loose, it won't move and it's always attached to my rifle. Some people are bothered by the front sight and front sight base in the bottom of the sight picture when running a red dot. I can't say it's been a problem for me though. I use it with both eyes open and am never distracted by the iron sight being in my FOV.

4) The prancing pony on the side of the receiver. Every once in a while, you just have to give in to what the heart wants.

 

[Predator55]

Had a couple of bushmasters that were fret, I'd have no problem buying another. It comes down to what you want to pay, prices range from 600 all the way north of 2 grand. I think for a none combat rifle most anything you buy will fit the bill for target or hunting. If your wanting a durable battle rifle get an AK and if money is no object look up Krebs Customs.

 

[fouled bore]

I just got a Ruger AR556 and it was good right out of the box. There are a few current threads on here about them if you are interested.

I Believe a 556 just has a longer lead in the chamber for the longer bullets and is rated at a higher pressure. Get the 556 and shoot either one.

 

[M1key]

*Melonite finished, 4150 steel barrel, 1:8 or 1:7 twist

*Quality tested bolt, well staked gas key

*Barrel profile to suit your needs

*Carbine or Mid-length gas system

*Quality brass ammo

The name on receiver is less important these days.

M

 

[entropy]

My son bought a DPMS Sportical, it has run well with Tulammo, Federal XM193, my own handloads to M193 levels, and my hunting handload: 25.8 gr. BL-C(2), 55 gr. V-Max, CCI 400, at 2.24" COL in various brass, mostly LC. He took 4 deer with it last year. The only malfunction it ever had was with a new shooter and a GI magazine (borrowed, my son has 20 rd. P-Mags) , and determined the shooter hadn't seated the magazine fully, even after I instructed him to slap it in and check that it was seated. (I had just shown him how with the previous mag I'd shot.)

Krusty783, you left out one of, if not the best: LWRC.


I'm in 100% agreement with Predator55:

If your wanting a durable battle rifle get an AK and if money is no object look up Krebs Customs.

I'd amend that to durable, 100% reliable.

 

[MistWolf]

The easy button is Colt. Last time I checked, Impact had several OEM Colts available. Colt gets the details right, such as using the correct buffer weight and using quality springs developed specifically for the M4.

I don't like the gas block on the DPMS Sportical. It's size prevents the installation of a longer handguard

 

[FL-NC]

Look at the S&W sport.

 

[Average Joe]

They are all made from mil specs. I don't think you will go wrong with any AR on the market, what makes them expensive is all the add on options.

 

[AR556]

I own the S&W Sport 1. I was looking for another AR. I wanted to build one with all of the parts from PSA. But, instead, I bought a Ruger AR-556.
The AR-556 or Sport 2 are great choices. Either one will do.

 

[Sushigaijin]

I have the S&W, highly recommend. Very accurate right out of the box.

5.56 is a slightly larger chamber to accommodate a slightly higher pressure (potentially more expansion in the brass) round. It's only larger enough to let the brass out. There are some anecdotes of 5.56 brass getting stuck in .223 chambers because the brass expansion locks the empty shell in the chamber. The accuracy theory is that a .223 round would be a loose fit in a 5.56 chamber - I've fired plenty of 223 in the 5.56 S&W, and it fits plenty tight. Bottom line is, get a 5.56 chamber and never worry about what you're shooting.

Edit: The DPMS is called the "sportical" which should be an immediate disqualification. In the event that "a rose by any name" is OK, it doesn't appear to have a brass deflector - that's the one bell and whistle in an upper that I'd hunt for. There's nothing worse than having an overzealous ejector toss blazing hot brass back towards your face. YMMV