First-ever ‘smart gun’ with fingerprint and facial recognition unlocking system hits the market

[N555]

And just like that the control freaks hate smart guns?
I guess be careful what you wish for, you just might get it...
Gun grabbers are worried this is going to get more non-gun people and people who are scared of guns "into guns".

 

[Jim Watson]

Gee whiz laudatory item on Public Radio today.
The designer was so concerned he started it as a school science fair project.

I think the system should be thoroughly tested by trained professionals before general release.
Like the Secret Service.

 

[FAS1]

Yeah, people don't want a smart gun due to all the potential problems that can keep it from firing but they'll buy a smart lock box (fingerprint biometric or RFID thingy) to keep their defense gun in for "ready" access.

Yep, and I have been saying for years that the day will come sooner than you think when the government will mandate Smart Guns only for sale to citizens. After all, they will say that biometric handgun safes have been accepted for years as good enough, so now it’s good enough for your guns.

 

[Basura Blanca]

Gun grabbers are worried this is going to get more non-gun people and people who are scared of guns "into guns".

Which is a great thing, right?
What if this (the technology, not the gun itself) is what breaks the barrier for someone who's been up to now, hesitant to buy a gun? I see that as a success far outweighing the technical details people are doting on here. If that's the target market, I don't really get the visceral reaction to the product. The reliability concerns are only superficially valid too, mostly because the vast majority of people out there aren't going to get into a self defense situation in the first place --smart gun, dumb gun or no gun. It's a big numbers game and fortunately, it's uncommon to have to shoot it out with bad guys in your living room.

And for those who maybe didn't read the link in post #139, here's a better and maybe more relatable excerpt about bridging technology with firearms:

"Once fire-by-wire works, sure you can use it to do biometric auth. But you don’t have to use it for that. Alternatively or additionally, you can use it to do, oh, anything you want. People pay a lot of money for fancy triggers today. How about a trigger that can be programmed to have any weight, any number of stages, any feel to the break? And the ability to change all of that anytime you want, or even from shot to shot."

 

[wayneinFL]

And for those who maybe didn't read the link in post #139, here's a better and maybe more relatable excerpt about bridging technology with firearms:

"Once fire-by-wire works, sure you can use it to do biometric auth. But you don’t have to use it for that. Alternatively or additionally, you can use it to do, oh, anything you want. People pay a lot of money for fancy triggers today. How about a trigger that can be programmed to have any weight, any number of stages, any feel to the break? And the ability to change all of that anytime you want, or even from shot to shot."

I see the advantage there. This is why I see these as more of a range toy or a novelty for now. They'll be a collectors' item someday.

When these are being used by military and police, I'll think about keeping one for defensive purposes. When it works, there will be a heck of an advantage with a gun only the cop can shoot. Retention techniques? Just let go of the gun.

Until then, I'll stick with simpler technology, and I just won't let little kids play with it.

 

[Hartkopf]

Again, it’s the government control of the new technology that many of us here don’t trust. The technology will eventually work ok. Maybe even real good. But when politicians can decide what your gun can do, or can be reprogrammed to do, that’s a problem. Unless I’m being unreasonable for not trusting politicians? Is that a thing now? They’re in it to help the people right? But then again new cars can be shut down, home thermostats can be reprogrammed and phones tracked. What the hell let’s give up more control in the name of safety!

 

[mcb]

Again, it’s the government control of the new technology that many of us here don’t trust. The technology will eventually work ok. Maybe even real good. But when politicians can decide what your gun can do, or can be reprogrammed to do, that’s a problem. Unless I’m being unreasonable for not trusting politicians? Is that a thing now? They’re in it to help the people right? But then again new cars can be shut down, home thermostats can be reprogrammed and phones tracked. What the hell let’s give up more control in the name of safety!

This gun has only one connection and that is to the USB-C to the charging dock. The dock is used charge the battery in the gun, setup users, and diagnose the gun as need. There is no wireless connection as part of the dock or gun Not everything that has a micro processor is susceptible to outside hacking. If you can't connect to it you can't hack it.

 

[Hartkopf]

This gun has only one connection and that is to the USB-C to the charging dock. The dock is used charge the battery in the gun, setup users, and diagnose the gun as need. There is no wireless connection as part of the dock or gun Not everything that has a micro processor is susceptible to outside hacking. If you can't connect to it you can't hack it.

We’ll see how long that lasts. I’ll give it till the gen2 is introduced.

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

This gun has only one connection and that is to the USB-C to the charging dock. The dock is used charge the battery in the gun, setup users, and diagnose the gun as need. There is no wireless connection as part of the dock or gun Not everything that has a micro processor is susceptible to outside hacking. If you can't connect to it you can't hack it.

Unless the source code has been published (highly doubt it’s open sourced) you have no idea what code already exists in the gun when you get. Considering that 1. The group making it already have all sorts of red flags that they are aligned to anti-gun agenda and 2. Very likely that they have had a ton of federal regulatory discussion that is likely injecting “safety” measures into their technology requirements, it’s not without possibility that such measures have already been considered. For instance “poison pill” code that requires updates at certain intervals or the inability to operate without the latest software, so software updates become mandatory at some point and who knows what’s in the software. In addition, the device already contains a wireless interface (camera). The camera, being infrared can easily be utilized for infrared wireless communication to accept commands. This is much like a TV remote, and inferred communication can even be utilized as a low speed wireless LAN. It is not beyond possibility that law enforcement could have special devices that emit infrared patterns that would prevent the gun from being fired, similar to the infrared transmitters emergency vehicles use to turn red traffic lights green.

 

[GEM]

One could conceive that in the future, a gun might have an imaging system that might detect for a police gun, that it was about to fire at another officer (some kind ID marker) and warn the shooter or even inhibit the shot. Kind of like you car warning you that you are out of lane or slowing you for a collision. Friendly fire solution? Just a thought. Then a black market on the warning device for criminals?

 

[mcb]

The software side of this will always be a two edge sword. Assuming the system works well and is robust I suspect that once the processor/hardware is known an open source version of the OS will become available and a way to side load it. Especially if the factory software is perceived to compromise user priority and security. If you don't trust the software, write your own. It will be hard to stop that though they can make that harder or easier. That's been going on for decades with tons of devices from PCs to smart phones and watched to home thermostats and even cars etc. I have little doubt the same community that is the intersection of the 3D printed gun community and the the open source OS community with have this gun hacked in just a few months after it's release.

A gun driven by software with fire by wire technology is going to be a fun can of worms that I am confident the government is not ready for and that will almost certainly subvert authoritarian control more that support it despite any original intent.

 

[Jim Watson]

I once suggested to a SWATter that his snipper rifle be equipped with a scope sight with video recording, available even then, and he recoiled in horror. Now he is stuck with a body camera and car camera.

Sig once showed a pistol with recording of when and how many shots were fired in what direction.

 

[GEM]

That eventually will be the case for all law enforcement. Fighting it will suggest that you have something to hide.

 

[mcb]

More background information. Ian from Forgotten Weapons does a nice interviews the lead designer of the Biofire smart gun. It gives you a good design history of what brought them to where they are.



I was disappointed they did not discuss the fire by wire aspect of of the gun.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

And next up on the blocks...subscription fees to enable the owner to use the gun. State sanctioned, of course.

Blutooth.

Override signal capabilities.

GPS tracking.

Microphone for remote monitoring.

 

[mcb]

And next up on the blocks...subscription fees to enable the owner to use the gun. State sanctioned, of course.

Blutooth.

Override signal capabilities.

GPS tracking.

Microphone for remote monitoring.

This particular gun has none of those capabilities. I suspect, given how much market research the interview made it appears they did, they already know doing any of that would kill the product. Just because they are making a biometrically lock fire-by-wire gun does not bey default mean they are in the pocket of the anti-2A movement. The fact that Ian seem to be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt seems to point to the fact that they may be legitimately trying to make a better home defense gun not just enable anti-2A. I am more than happy to watch them try and judge them by the quality of the finished product.

 

[Capybara]

Tyrannical state governments that have already implemented microstamping will obviously eventually mandate this on every gun sold in those states.
A curse on the idiots who invented this and are putting it forth, they know not what they do for civilian gun ownership.

 

[desmobob]

I'm betting it can be remotely disabled. By someone other than you...

 

[desmobob]

There is no wireless connection as part of the dock or gun

Says who? On the review models, when they become available? Or on any of the models?

 

[theotherwaldo]

The first time that this fail-safe system fails-null, someone will sue this company into extinction.
That's why I dropped any interest in designing "safe guns" back in the 1980's... .

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

This particular gun has none of those capabilities. I suspect, given how much market research the interview made it appears they did, they already know doing any of that would kill the product. Just because they are making a biometrically lock fire-by-wire gun does not bey default mean they are in the pocket of the anti-2A movement. The fact that Ian seem to be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt seems to point to the fact that they may be legitimately trying to make a better home defense gun not just enable anti-2A. I am more than happy to watch them try and judge them by the quality of the finished product.

This is why I said "And next up on the blocks..."

This issue isn't with the company, per se. It's with the government.

There are legislators on the record with saying that as soon as such technology becomes available, they are all set to push mandates.

Microstamping mandates is another thing they're all set to push as well...and that's actually happening.

Rest assured that these ARE coming down the political pipeline and they WILL become political hot potatoes.

 

[mcb]

Says who? On the review models, when they become available? Or on any of the models?

The company said there is no wireless connection to the gun.

From the company's FAQ on the Biofire
Does the Smart Gun connect to the internet?
No, your Biofire Smart Gun does not connect to the internet or to any other wireless network. The Smart Dock can connect to your home Wi-Fi, but only if you opt-in to doing so. You do not need to connect any Biofire product to the internet for it to function for its full lifetime.

Remember if it does have a backdoor wireless connection the computer gurus (that are 2A friendly) will find it and make it know widely. This is something they will not tolerate. Also remember that the computer gurus/3D printed gun community is going to have a field day with this system. This will be the first self loading fire by wire gun on the market and the only difference between it being a biomarker lock semi-auto and a completely unlocked full-auto is going to be the software it is running. I have little doubt there will be an open source operating system for this hardware within a few months after it hits the market.

If you think the ATF made a mess of bump stocks and pistol braces, wait till you see what they do with software driven firearms.

 

[desmobob]

The company said there is no wireless connection to the gun.

Exactly. Do you trust them? What is their track record? I'm sure I sound a bit paranoid, but I feel this whole concept has far more potential for the antis than for the 2A folks.

 

[mcb]

Exactly. Do you trust them? What is their track record? I'm sure I sound a bit paranoid, but I feel this whole concept has far more potential for the antis than for the 2A folks.

At this point I don't have enough information to trust or distrust them. Ian from Forgotten Weapons seem open minded and interested and I feel he would not be if he thought this product or company had a serious anti-2A vibe. We all might be getting duped but the thing is once they sell these to the public and "we" as a community get our hands on them we will fairly quickly prove out if the gun is reliable or not and if there are any nefarious backdoors or not. If they try to hide a kill switch or similar its going to be found and the company will go under for it. If on the other hand they are honest and earnest in creating a reliable biometrically locked firearm then there are some legitimate niches (home defense, prison guards etc) where this technology can be an asset and I hope they prosper as a company in those niches.

But as a tech geek and engineer I am most interested in the intersection of the fire by wire and software aspects of this weapon and how that will interact with the firearms laws and the ATF that I don't think is ready for this technology.

 

[rtroha]

You do not need to connect any Biofire product to the internet for it to function for its full lifetime.

Except for when the company issues a firmware update.