First lever action. Which caliber? Which brand?

[Kachok]

I have owned plenty of rifles over the years, but due to the areas I lived I have zero experence with lever guns. Now I live in south Alabama and the shots are on avarage alot closer then what we had out in west Texas, so I thought this to be the perfect time to buy my first lever action. I don't need one of the new Marlin Express cartrages, I already have plenty of bolt actions for hunting where longer ranges would be expected, so that is simply not needed. The defalt lever gun seems to be the Marlin 336 in 30-30 and no doubt that is a fine setup, I was thinking about going a little larger caliber since I already have a .30cal. I can justify a little more umph because of the scarry big feral hogs we come across here from time to time, and while I don't have a cast iron shoulder, I am not recoil shy either. There are several chamberings that have caught my attention. 44 magnum, 444 Marlin, 454 Casull, 45-70 and the 500 S&W. The big players in big bore lever actions seem to be Marlin, Puma, Henry, and Rossi. What are the key differnces in the different brands of lever action rifles?

 

[ExAgoradzo]

1st Lever gun: Marlin 1894 357. Great gun: but I have a gate issue that has sidelined it for several months. My boys are going out with me more now and want to shoot it: so I have to get it fixed.
Next lever gun: 45-70 Marlin 1895. I like the history. I like the: "I will kick anything's butt in the west". I like the history.
I also like my 44 mag. The 'cool' factor plays big in that. Now I need a Ruger 44 mag and I'll be set!

 

[gearjammer-2000]

henry big boy in .44 and a 44 hand gun of your choice is a sweet setup

 

[ExAgoradzo]

Sorry for repeating myself. I like the history...
Also, my 44 is the 1894 Marlin.

 

[bigfatdave]

and

Both in .45 Colt (the brass trimmed one in top pic)

Or a pair in .22LR if the goal is just punching paper and enjoying the gun.

 

[hawkeye10]

I would love to have a nice Savage model 99. Don

 

[Sav .250]

Hawkeye10:
Save your money and one day you might get the chance.

 

[x_wrench]

i don't really know about the other rifles, but the marlins will be able to take up to 43,000 cup , which will give you as much recoil as you will really want. i am not recoil shy either, but max loads in a 45/70 guide gun, which by the way will stop anything short of a rhino, will be as much recoil as any sane man will want. plus the guide gun is very fast handling, and quite accurate. and to top all of that off, it is made in the good ol' USA. the 444 is an ok cartridge as well, just limited in factory ammo to shoot, and lees popular in stores as far as availability. this was my first big bore rifle, and it taught me a lot. prior to this, i thought velocity was the key to knock down power. i was wrong!

 

[Tirod]

While there's a following for it, a pistol cartridge in a lever is not a step up from .30-30. The.45-70 would be - as would the other rifle cartridges, most with twice the powder capacity.

Lot's of Texas hog hunters use 6.8SPC, the .30-30 would be entirely adequate out to 250m. If you take a look at the Browning BLR in rifle calibers, they stretch from 7mm-08 to .450 Marlin, including .308 and .30-06.

For hunting tough chested hogs, I wouldn't take a pistol caliber gun to a rifle shoot. Stick with a minimum of .30-30 and you won't regret being undergunned.

 

[DM~]

There are a pile of used lever guns out there, and if i was buying a Marlin, i'd take an older used Marlin over a new one any day!

DM

 

[Random Discharge]

What Tirod says. And you kind of said it yourself. There are lots of good reasons the 30-30 is the "standard" for a lever rifle. Pistol caliber lever guns are interesting, but for your first lever gun you cannot go wrong with the 30-30. Or the Marlin 336 for same. Both set the standard they do for a reason. Add a 1-4x20 scope to keep the package fast handling and you are good to go.

I think if you compare the ballistics of a 44 magnum to the 30-30 (sectional density for penetration, energy, whatever), you'll find the 30-30 gives up nothing to the 44 under 100 yards and the 44 comes up short beyond 100 yards. The 30-30 is quite capable to a tad over 200 yards. The standard 170 grain 30-30 load is plenty of medicine for scarry feral hogs or anything else you want good penetration on. The 160 grain LeverEvolution is a good do all round that goes the distance. Personally, I don't think the 35 Remington brings enough to the table to offset the flatter trajectory, universal availability, and slightly lower recoil of the 30-30.

If you want a high recoil hammer for rhinos, get a 45-70. But that's a pretty specialized hunt. This is your first lever gun.

 

[tubeshooter]

Sounds like a 336 in .35 Rem might be just the ticket - if you don't mind the difference in ammo availability compared to .30-30.

Reloading fixes this, of course.


I have no personal experience with it having went the .30-30 route, but the fans seem to think it's a real hoot. Good hunter, too.

 

[pikid89]

^ i second this, if you like the Marlin 336, get one in .35 Remington

 

[Panzercat]

Faced the same choice and the biggest thing I took away from the Big Levergun Showdown was a 45-70 doesn't really shine unless you hand load, and if you don't, feeding it is more expensive than your other choices. Unless you need zombie-bear repellent, a 45-70 is overkill for most apps, including hog hunting.

Of course, overkill undeniably has charm unto itself.

In pistols calibers, you'll sacrifice range for payload. You'll carry more rounds, but be limited to 100-150 yards max in terms of stopping power. Against a big hog you'd probably want to err on the conservative side of those numbers. Ultimately, the 30-30 comes in as the nice medium. It'll take anything the average guy like myself will hunt (I don't encounter many grizzlies) and enough edge on range to do it. Of course, there's the school that says the skill is in getting close, but that's not here or there.

I plucked a 2002 Marlin 336 stainless in 30-30 and excellent condition off backpage.com about 6mo ago for $450. Haven't seen a deal (or another stainless, for that matter) like that since.

 

[RevGeo]

Like hawkeye10 I'm a Savage 99 fan. My old 99 in .300 Savage has a little more oomph than a 30-30 and a little less that a .308.
If handyness is important I'd go for a Win 94 in either 30-30 or .35 Rem. Out to 200 yards or so there is virtually no practical difference in relative trajectory and the .35 has a little more wallop.
If a scope is in order the Marlin 336 is probably a better choice, but, for no good reason, I like the Winchester better.

George

 

[aka108]

Savage 99 is a great lever gun. My Son owns one in 300 Savage. Comfortable to handle and very mild recoil.

 

[CraigC]

For hunting tough chested hogs, I wouldn't take a pistol caliber gun to a rifle shoot. Stick with a minimum of .30-30 and you won't regret being undergunned.

Within typical hog hunting ranges, the big bore pistol cartridges, properly loaded, ARE more gun.

Yes, the 170gr .30-30 has a high sectional density......until it hits the target and expands.

 

[Kachok]

I do handload, and plan to roll my own for any caliber I shoot. That is why the price of 45-70, 444, 500 S&W ammo does not scare me. Does anyone have any experence with the Puma or Rossi lever guns? I have absolutly no doubt in the lethality of such pistol rounds like the 44 mag, and 454 Casull, they are every bit as lethal as the 30-30 and then some within 75-100 yards. 240-250gr HPs will make quick clean kills on deer, and 300+gr hardcast will have no trouble with penatration even on the largest of hogs. Part of the appeal to me for the larger slower calibers is the fact that I can cast my own bullets, kind of like taking handloading to the next level.

 

[Random Discharge]

Ahh. Hand loading and casting? Yes, you're into pistol caliber territory. Lots easier to load up. Lots of fun. 44 or 45-70 make all kinds of sense.

 

[irondavy]

I really like my 336 blued in 30-30. Plenty of hogs have been taken with it. It's light, easy to carry, has plenty of power, and cost me 300 bucks at a pawn shop, can't complain a bit. just my 2 cents

ID

 

[Kachok]

The appeal to me for the 44 is that I can use it in both rifle and handgun.The 454 might be a bit much for my wrist but I should have no issue with it in a rifle, it can do everything the 44 can and then some. The 45-70 can handle super heavy hardcast which make it suitable for everything shy of elephant or rhino, though it has a reputatuon of being very tough on the shoulder, and is limited to 4 rounds in lever guns. The 444 is similar to the 45-70 except it does not have several different pressure specs. The 500 S&W is the largest caliber that I can legaly use, and there is some appeal in that Much like the 45-70 it is plenty of gun for anything that walk North America, but the kick is sure to be stout, and only one rifle maker builds it in a lever gun, and they are pricy. So many calibers so little time BTW I am looking for a carbine length barrel, that is the main reason the 45-70 was not a shoe in.

 

[rswartsell]

should you be interested in cast bullets, be aware that Marlin "micro-groove" barrels are not compatible. I have a '79 Marlin 336 micro-groove and haven't missed cast bullets yet.
You can find differing opinions about this, but it seems that you need to use a slightly oversize cast bullet and keep velocities down to get performance, others say that the whole thing is bunk and they do just fine. For me I've simplified to no cast bullets through a micro-groove barrel.

 

[BCRider]

The Puma and Rossi lever guns are clones of the Winchester 1892 gun. The '92 has a bit of a reputation in the cowboy shooting circles for being a bit iffy with fast cycling. They tend to flip the fresh cartridge up nose high and produce a jam when cycled really fast. Once tuned up they can run with the best.

But the serious shooters that go for speed of shots go with an 1873 instead for the smoother and more reliable feeding action. But if you were to go that route the '73 isn't as good for handling hotter loads over a long time. And it only comes in the smaller handgun calibers up to .45Colt. No .454 allowed from what I've seen. Also the '73 tends to be a much longer and heavier gun then the 92 or even the 94.

So back to the '92's. The good news is that guns such as the Rossi are easy to slick up to bypass any slight issues you may run across. And the Rossi's in particular are fairly cheap to buy so there's money left to turn them into very slick guns that cycle fast and reliably and have a nice trigger to boot. These guns also come in a 16 inch barrel carbine version. You pay for this lightness and compactness with a lowered ammo capacity. But they guns are so light and compact that they feel like you're walking around with a handgun. Yet they can spit out .44Mag or stout .45Colt just fine. I'm not sure if the .454 comes in the carbine length.

Nothing around in .500S&W from what I've found. If you find one let me know as I also shoot .500 from a small and short rifle for giggles.

Which brings us to the Win 1894 rifle. The classic chambering is in .30-30. And since you're reloading you can run them at the higher end of the velocity range. In any case it's a classic rifle with one of the 20th century's classic cartridges.

Speaking of which the tube magazines used on so many lever rifles requires you to use generously rounded or flat nosed ammo. Or thanks to Hornady the new soft point Leverevolution ammo or bullets. Otherwise the risk is that the sharp nose of one round can set off the primer of the next ahead of it due to stout recoil. Lever rifles such as the older Savage or Browning use a box mag to get around this. But a lot of us don't consider them very "classic" looking. Do a search on images for "savage lever" and "browning lever" and see what I mean.

Now I have to admit here that I don't hunt. I just know what I've read in the handgun forums for stories of guys that hunt hogs and deer with handguns. But there seems to be lots of stories of folks using the regular revolver loads of .357Mag, 44Mag and 45Colt in handguns for hog hunting at proper and humane handgun distances and having a lot of fun. And when you figure that these same rounds from a rifle are moving about 100 to 200 fps faster that should do the trick. Same for small to medium deer out to around 80 to 100 yards as well from the stories I've read.

The key here is that if you're looking for longer distances out to 200 yards then you likely should be looking at the proper rifle caliber options like the .30-30 and .35Remington that have been mentioned. Or even a Browning lever rifle that uses a box magazine to avoid the tube issues.

The shorter range issue will apply to any handgun round since they trade higher bullet weight for velocity. As a result they are going to bleed energy quicker due to the poor sectional density and suffer from drop due to the slower muzzle velocity. All of which makes them more suitable for closer in shooting.

From your post it sounds to me like you're looking for a chance to get more up close and personal in tighter brush. A short, light, easy handling carbine in .44Mag or .45Colt sounds like the ticket to a really different hunting experience for you. But if this is a wrong assumption from your post then listen to the guys that are suggesting the proper rifle calibers.

EDIT- I just realized that I've sort of missed out the Marlins. But the other posters certainly filled in on that front. LOTS of happy Marlin owners out there. One thing though. If you're looking at using a scope then the Marlin is THE way to go since the solid frame top and side ejection makes it so much more suitable than any of the Winchester or clones with top ejection.

One thing about the Henrys. By all accounts that I've read the guns are very nicely made. And certainly my own .22 Henry is a keeper. But with Henry you give up one of the slick attributes of most lever rifles, the ability to top up the magazine at any time via the sprung side loading gate. The Henry is a forward loading port only.

 

[Kachok]

Oh I have no intention on using a pistol cartrage at 200 yards, that is just silly. I have a perfect little 6.5x55 for when I won't be hunting in the brush, I like the idea of a large caliber carbine lever action because it would be very handy in tight spots and have a quicker followup then a bolt action without the feeding issues and extra weight of a semi auto. I know the 30-30 is a formitable little round and I can get a NIB 336 for $349 at Wally world, it is hard to argue with the practicality of that especaly since the ammo is the cheapest of any deer hunting caliber, but I want to explore the larger cal options before I even think about jumping on the 336 bandwagon.

 

[valnar]

If you pick up a Marlin (which I recommend), try to find a nice used one made before 2008. The recent Marlin guns should be stayed away from.

I think the .44Mag or .30-30 would be ideal. Decide for yourself if range and power is more important than capacity, and buy accordingly.