First revolver: S&W 19-2

[RugerOldArmy]

All my handguns have been C&B Revolvers or Semis, until yesterday.

I don't know much about about revolvers, but always liked S&W 19(s), 29(s), and Colt Pythons. (They just seem to have ideal ergonomics for me, the Python, perhaps being a tad nose-heavy.)

Yesterday, I spotted a S&W 19-2, 6" barrel, that looked like it had never been shot. ($495). It seemed a great value to me. This is the old-style smith, with the firing pin on the hammer.

A few questions on the S&W 19-2:

- How old is this model? Guessing from the potentially fiction Wikipedia page, it looks like this was made between 1963 and 1966? (Looks brand new).

- It is my understanding that these are medium-light frames (what '?'-Frame letter?), and I should shoot more .38 Special loads than .357(s)? No steady diet of .357?

- Is it OK to dry fire?

- I know they made a lot of these, but was this a good deal? (a 4" one would be nice too!)

- Opinion: I've got to reload for a new cartridge regardless. Would you gear up for .38 Special or .357 Mag? (I've got 1911(s) for a defensive gun. This is intended for the range.)

 

[stoveboltgunnut]

Congrats on the purchase of a model 19!!! You will love that wheel gun.

Your model 19 is a K frame (medium frame) revolver.

I always use snap caps when I dry fire, others may disagree, but I believe they are cheap insurance. I bought a model 28 once that had a cracked hammer nose. I always thought it was caused by dry firing

Always best with a model 19 to practice with .38, and use .357 for duty/carry. Shooting a few .357's once in a while will not harm it though. For the most part, the light 125 grain (and less) .357's are what caused the problems in the model 19. There is some debate over wheather 158 grain mag loads would ever do damage...but Bill Jordan (the guy who talked s&w into making a medium frame .357) always said to think of the model 19 as a .38 special that can occasionally shoot .357.

I think you did great on the price if it is a good clean gun.

You are pretty much correct on the time frame your revolver was made. Someone who has "the book" can tell you what year based on the serial.

 

[glassman]

I bought this 19-4 about a year ago and baby it by shooting .38's through it. I have read that you should stick to 158gr when firing .357's in it. I called S&W this week about something else and while I had them on the phone asked if they had replacement barrels for a M19/M66. They didn't. This is a great range gun that is a dream to shoot.

 

[dagger dog]

K frame Combat Magnum, they will hold up to a fair amount of .357, but they are still a little lighter made than the L frame, I had a 4" that took a lot of pounding from some upper end.357 reloads and still came away locking up tight. Very well made , dry firing is ok but get some snap caps just to make it a little easier on the gun.

Love that blue especially on the older guns.

 

[C-grunt]

You will love it. I recently got a M15, K frame .38, and its a sweet shooter. With target .38s it kicks like a .22.

I have always heard to just stay away from the hot 125 grain rounds and you will be fine.

 

[Oro]

- How old is this model? Guessing from the potentially fiction Wikipedia page, it looks like this was made between 1963 and 1966? (Looks brand new).

'61 to '66.

- It is my understanding that these are medium-light frames (what '?'-Frame letter?), and I should shoot more .38 Special loads than .357(s)? No steady diet of .357?

Correct, as answered above.

- Is it OK to dry fire?

To your heart's content. Snap caps don't influence the physics of the hammer fall to any degree on this gun. You don't have to take my word for it, it's in the S&W manual, and it's in the FAQ's at their web site.

- I know they made a lot of these, but was this a good deal? (a 4" one would be nice too!)

Depends upon condition, both mechanical and cosmetic. It also depends if it has the original grips still with it, and what type, and also box and accessories. Mechanical condition can be determined by following the steps in Jim March's sticky at the top of this forum. For an original gun, not-reblued, in excellent or better condition with original target grips, that would be a fair price. Posting pictures would help determine that.

Would you gear up for .38 Special or .357 Mag? (I've got 1911(s) for a defensive gun.

Since they use the same bullets and dies, you can gear up for them both at the same time. You just change the length of the dies. Some .357 magnum loads require magnum primers, some don't. There are some powders you can load both with, though best performance in magnums is usually with larger charges of slower powders, very different from what works best in lighter target loads.

Another option is to just put all your loads in .357 brass, and then change only the primer and powder when you load. You won't need to tweak your dies each time. This will prevent powder residue from the shorter .38 cases gumming up your chambers. This requires you to keep the loads separated so you know what's what. One guy I know of keeps a large green and a large red magic marker on hand. He puts the loads bullet-down in the storage trays (Mt. Guard type boxes). He swipes the heads of the light loads green, the heavy loads red. That way if they end up in the wrong box, the label comes off, or they are loose on the bench, he knows what's what.

 

[420Stainless]

Good luck with the 19-2. I am envious -been watching for one in good shape and a reasonable price for a couple years and haven't found one locally that meets both conditions.

 

[Landpimp]

been looking(not too hard) for a 19-2 made in 1965 for a year, no luck, very nice 19 you have there

 

[RugerOldArmy]

Thanks much for all the info folks. I can't wait to pick it up. It looks very much like Glassman's Pic, and pretty much the same condition, (and I believe the same grips).

I placed orders for a Dillon quick change kit, dies, 1K Starline .357 brass, and 2k of 158 Gr LSWC (some hard cast, some softer match). I've got several powders that should do for light target loads (Unique, 231, Bullseye, Power Pistol, titegroup, trail boss). Unique sounds like a likely first test powder. I still need a case gauge and magnum small pistol primers.

I can wait for the test drive!

Thanks again.

 

[KyJim]

Congratulations on your Model 19. The Model 19 may be the quintessential carry .357 magnum. Smith and Wesson developed the Model 19 at the urging of lawman and gun writer Bill Jordan. He thought the SW K-frame (medium frame) could be more easily carried by police. The idea was to practice mostly with .38 special while shooting some .357 magnums and to carry with the magnum rounds. Having said that, the Model 19 will digest a lot of magnum rounds of the right kind.

When the Model 19 was developed, the standard .357 magnum load included a 158 grain bullet. Then many shooters began to subscribe to the "lighter, faster" bullet theory and started shooting 125 grain bullets out of the Model 19. The lighter bullet exited the chamber just enough faster for additional high pressure gasses and particles to escape before burning up. They hit the backstrap of the revolver and the forcing cone.

You will often see a thin line cut across the backstrap. This is called flame cutting. It's not a serious problem in and of itself but it is an indicator of how many light magnum loads have been fired. The second problem is more serious. With extended shooting of light magnum bullets, the forcing cone can weaken and crack.

For these reasons, I limit my .357 magnum loads in my Model 19s to those of 158 grains (or larger). However, it would not hurt to shoot some of the lighter weight magnums through it if you prefer. It takes quite a few rounds before a problem develops.

Finally, if you shoot many .38 specials, use a bore brush to clean each chamber in the cylinder before shooting .357 magnums. This prevents a powder ring from forming and possibly causing excessive pressure when shooting the longer .357 magnum round.

 

[Quoheleth]

FYI, I love using Titegroup as a magnum powder for my Ruger GP100. I use the max charge of 5.0gr (start charge is 4.5gr) under a Missouri Bullet .357Action! 158gr LSWC and a standard SPP - either CCI or Winchester. Per the manual, it runs @ 1100 fps. It's soft shooting, flat, and at 50 yards I can hit clay pidgeons with regularity. It should be pleasant with the model 19.

Q

 

[bflobill_69]

The model 19 does have great ergonomics. It is my favorite revolver to shoot hands down. From what I have read and been told from folks who have been shooting for many, many years, the 110gr and 125gr .357mg loads should not be shot from the K Frames. The energy from those loads are potentially just too much for the medium frame .357

As for gearing up for new loads, I shoot a LOT of wadcutters out of my model 19. They are getting harder and harder to find from major ammo manufacturers and are always a pleasure to shoot at the range.

Pick up a set of Pachymar grips and start enjoying your wonderful new (or new to you) gun.

Bflobill69

 

[Quentin]

The Model 19 is my favorite revolver. Got a 6" 19-3 in 1976 and it's still a beauty though age has reduced its luster a bit. But it still looks like a baby brother to Dirty Harry's Model 29.

 

[Reid73]

You've already made the purchase, so whether you got a good deal or an okay deal is beside the point. And I suspect that you want a shooter, not a collector's pet ('safe queen').

You have a pinned and recessed pre-lock S&W that looks brand-new. Assuming that it functions well, I think that's certainly worth $495.

Since you have a 1911 for defensive purposes, you will not be tempted to use .357 loads. Accordingly, the fact that the K-framed 19/66 is a bit light for regular magnum usage is a non-issue. The Model 19 is a fine gun, and for target shooting .38s it is probably a better choice than the heavier-framed 28/29.

 

[Drgong]

congrats, a model 19 is a wonderful gun!

 

[BCRider]

Congrats on one of the nicer models in the S&W line. There's few guns that have the versatility and relative low cost of shooting as the 19.

If it helps I often enjoy a little game called Revolver Roulette. I got the idea when I noticed the cartridges came in rows of five. I load five .38Spl and one .357Mag. Sure does wonders to tell you if you're flinching...

Another option if you're re-loading your own is to make up your own +P or near to +P rounds. A bit more kick to add to your range sessions but EASILLY within the pressure capability of the 19's frame. I've shot a fair number of +P from my own 19 and it seems like the best middle ground for range giggles.

 

[Reid73]

The Model 19 will certainly handle +P, but for paper punching I don't see the point.

 

[BCRider]

You're right, you certainly do not NEED it for punching paper. But if you enjoy the feel of some extra kick during paper sessions why the heck not enjoy it? We're only talking maybe a couple of cents or so more powder per round if you reload, which the OP says he does. If you're buying factory then I have to agree and I doubt I'd be buying +P at the extra cost.

Up my way where handguns are only legal on specified ranges we shoot strictly for fun. There's no other option. For pure fun and punching paper a little more kick can help put a grin on my face and adds to the fun during a session. If I'm shooting my revolvers in a purely bullseye, speed steel or cowboy action match then the extra kick may/will slow me down from an accurate bullseye or a fast follow up shot on the same plate or getting a faster sight picture on the next. If that's the case some extra kick isn't a good thing. For those times I may opt for a load that is more in line with standard or even slightly reduced from the usual .38Spl loading. But for my own time on the range by myself I enjoy a little more show and smack. And if it can throw a bit of flame out the cylinder gap to add to the show then it's even more fun. The +P certainly fills the grin value on that count...

 

[mbopp]

When I go for a walk in the woods most of the time I'll have my 4" 19-4 with me. It'll be loaded with cast wadcutters at 38 spl velocity assembled in 38 or 357 cases. Personal preference, but it's handier and easier pointing than my 22 autos, Contender, or SBH. And I have the option of stuffing some full house 357 loads in it for fun. It has the factory grips as I've never felt the need to put aftermarket grips on it.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

Thanks much for all the input/info. It looks like I'm not the only one with a taste for 19(s).

The waiting period was over, so I picked it up on the way back from work. It will probably take me a week to get a pic, but I looked it over again, and cleaned it. It's almost as clean as Glassman's pic, one spot of worn blueing on the left side of the barrel, near the muzzle, worn as if someone right handed set it down, barrel first. The cylinder gap is very small, you really have to get the angle right to see light. The (single action, I tested it cocked) trigger pull is 3.2-ish lbs and crisp. It needs a drop of white paint on the front sight. The barrel is bright, but had some lead fouling. Overall, it looks very lightly used. It even has the original warranty card to send in. (I wonder what the look would be on their face if I sent in an early 1960s warranty card, lol!)

Smith grips, similar slighly spiffier than Glassmans, right handed, the top of the left stock differs from his pic, as does the checkering.

I should have everything necessary to load .357 target rounds by the end of the week, but I had nothing that used Small Pistol Magnum primers, so none were stockpiled, and I couldn't find them in two stores (or online at a few places). I have regular small pistiol primers, which should be fine for target wadcutter loads. I did buy a pound of 2400, and am seeking some 158-ish JHP's to try a few low-mid range .357 loads for fun. I also picked up two boxes of factory 125 Gr Gold Dots, in case the wrong dogs come home and the 19 needed to get pressed into service.

I very much like the weight, balance, trigger and ergonomics. This might dethrone the 1911s for bullseye. I'm very happy with it so far. I'll try to get some pics and take it for a test drive.

 

[harmonic]

Re top strap cutting and cracked forcing cones.

The 125 grain bullets driven to maximum velocities used large charges of relatively slow-burning powders. Handloaders know the powder types as WW296 and H-110, among others. The combination of slow ball-type powders and the short bearing surface of the 125 bullets allows prolonged gas cutting of the forcing cone and top strap area, accelerating erosion and wear.

Borescope studies of rifle, machine gun, and auto cannon chamber throats shows a lizzard-skin-like texture due to this gas cutting damage, called "brinelling". The results of brinelling are fine microcracks that weaken the surface of the steel, and further promote erosion. In machine guns and auto cannons, barrel life is measured in terms of "useable accuracy", and round counts that determine this are based on group sizes at engagement ranges.

In the K-frame magnums, the forcing cone dimensions combined with the barrel shank dimensions results in a relatively thin shank at the 6 o'clock position, where a machine cut is made to clear the crane. This is usually where the forcing cone cracks. The L and N frames use much beefier barrel shanks and do not have this cut. S&W intended the K frame magnums to be "carried much and fired seldom" service arms, designed to fire .38 Specials indefinitely, with light to moderate use of .357 Magnums. You notice that S&W has discontinued production of K frame .357 magnums, no doubt due to product liability issues and a couple generations of K frame magnum experience.

 

[rondog]

Back in my youth, I owned two of those at two different times. They could have been twins, I recall they were identical, but I didn't own both at the same time. 6", with white outlined rear sight blade and orange ramp front. Bought both for $225 each, sold each for much less during hard times. God, I loved those guns! I wish I just had one of them. And I really never shot them that much, compared to now.

 

[Reid73]

Well, buy another one! Model 19s in good condition are not terribly hard to find.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

Pics are still pending (sorry), but I did get out take the Model 19 for a test drive.

The Starline brass is still backordered, so I bought a bag of 100 Winchester cases to get out. I only loaded light .38 Special level loads: 4.0 Gr W231, WSP, 158 Gr LSWC, .357 Winchester brass. I've some 2400 and 158 Gr XTPs, which I'll wait on the Starline for. I took a box a 125 Gr full house Gold Dots as well.

The Gold Dots were a hoot! I shot them first, fearing leading with the LSWC. Quite loud, but an accurate load, and very easy to control. I enjoyed it, and know what to expect. I'll save the other two boxes in case I ever have thhe 19 in the nightstand.

I had low expectations for the light LSWC load, being a wild guess load, rather than a full workup, but I was amazed as to how well they shot. I equaled or beat the best groups I've EVER shot with my semi-autos (and I have some nice ones), several times. (25 Yards, I shot mostly SA, but shot some groups almost as good DA.)

The sights were dead on, and needed no adjustment. What a pleasant gun to shoot! I even put pop can on the berm behind 50 yard line, and hit it the first time!

I'm pretty impressed with my first Smith.

 

[rondog]

I've owned two of them, just like you described. 6", with the orange insert in the front sight and a white outlined rear sight. I loved those guns, broke my heart to sell them. Each one cost me $225, purchased from an ad in the paper. Back in the '70's.