McGlock
Member
I'm about to buy my first AR. I'm leaning towards a Del-Ton Echo 316/MOE. Any thoughts on this rifle would be most welcomed.
First time AR-15 buyer:
- Thread starter McGlock
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mljdeckard
Member
I would echo Pablo exactly. A M&P or a Colt 6920.
henschman
Member
You can do a lot better than the Del-Ton for the money. Palmetto State Armory and Bravo Company Manufacturing would be my first choices.
Ibmikey
Member
This question has been asked many times, Del Ton makes a fine rifle and is priced right, PSA is great too but stick with "premium", a. Colt 6920 is the standard that others are judged by but more pricey, Daniel Defense and BCM are excellent choices as is the S&W M&P line. I have examples of all of these and there is no "junk" among them. The end result is: research each of the rifles on your list, compare the specs to the 6920 for a guideline and pick the one that meets your needs and budget requirements. The alternative is to buy quality parts and assemble a rifle exactly to your desires, if done right will probably cost as much or more than a Colt. Cheap is not always better in the AR world, with the exception of the S&W Sport, premium components at a easy price.
Happy hunting!
Happy hunting!
Mosin Bubba
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The M&P 15 Sport is the gold standard for entry level ARs. Get one here, and you could probably have a new name-brand AR for under $600, even after shipping and a transfer fee.
http://grabagun.com/firearms/ar/complete-ar-rifles/s-w-m-p15-spt-556nato-16-30rd-fld.html
http://grabagun.com/firearms/ar/complete-ar-rifles/s-w-m-p15-spt-556nato-16-30rd-fld.html
Outlaw Man
Member
I agree with TMCCOY. If you're just going to use this for plinking on the range, the Del Ton may be a good choice. If you're going to do a lot of heavy competing or training, or if you're going to battle with it, I'd start with Colt or Spikes, and maybe some S&W or PSA rifles. If you had the funds, upgrading to Daniel Defense or BCM (or even the likes of LaRue or Noveske, depending on the need) wouldn't be money wasted.
It's not that the Del-Ton rifles are junk or unuseable. They just need a little TLC to get to where those others are. For someone new, that type of work may be daunting (and isn't going to save you any money over some well-priced Spikes and Colt rifles).
It's not that the Del-Ton rifles are junk or unuseable. They just need a little TLC to get to where those others are. For someone new, that type of work may be daunting (and isn't going to save you any money over some well-priced Spikes and Colt rifles).
1911 guy
Member
Intended purpose means a lot. Like others have said: if it's simply a range rifle, the Del-Ton will work fine. If it's going to be expected to do more, it's going to need a few tweaks that will cost just as much (or more) than buying a better rifle from the start.
rodinal220
Member
NWcityguy2
Member
Del-Tons are fine ARs. For starters Del-Ton makes a correctly assembled AR. You can count on it to work out of the box and not fall apart. The two pieces of the AR that wear out the first (still few people actually wear them out) are the barrel and the bolt. Del-ton makes a quality bolt which is equivalent to a Colt/PSA/BCM. If you are buying the rifle stock, it will probably come with a 4140 barrel that isn't chrome lined. This will certainly have a short life span than a lined barrel but even having said that it doesn't mean that you will wear it out. What kind of round count are you looking at putting through this rifle?
The M&P sport is a good rifle and will have longer barrel life (melonite treated) but at the cost of a few features like a dust cover and forward assist.
Colts are the gold standard but will always be beat price wise and option wise by someone. And I'm talking about an equivalent rifle as well, not an Olympic or DPMS.
I'm a huge fan of PSA and recommend them to almost everyone I talk to. Price vs. Features is everything in the AR world and I think PSA beats the big 3 premium brands (Colt/BCM/DD) by offering an equally accurate/durable rifle for a better price. They certainly don't have the rail options that BCM/DD have, but I'm not a big fan of rails anyway.
I personally think that for the same money you can get a better product from PSA then you can from Del-ton. If you are dead set on a Del-ton and do plan on shooting a lot, look at their custom options and pay $35 for a chrome lined barrel. $35 now will save you $150 in a few years.
As someone who does shoot competition and has been to war, I'm not a big fan of statements like these...
A bullet fired is a bullet fired, you're gun doesn't know the difference. Also if you want to compete, you're not buying a Colt M4, don't make me laugh. My advise is to cut through the marketing and think about what you are going to do with your rifle. Don't buy into the whole "serious shooters use this" mentality which isn't even true.
The M&P sport is a good rifle and will have longer barrel life (melonite treated) but at the cost of a few features like a dust cover and forward assist.
Colts are the gold standard but will always be beat price wise and option wise by someone. And I'm talking about an equivalent rifle as well, not an Olympic or DPMS.
I'm a huge fan of PSA and recommend them to almost everyone I talk to. Price vs. Features is everything in the AR world and I think PSA beats the big 3 premium brands (Colt/BCM/DD) by offering an equally accurate/durable rifle for a better price. They certainly don't have the rail options that BCM/DD have, but I'm not a big fan of rails anyway.
I personally think that for the same money you can get a better product from PSA then you can from Del-ton. If you are dead set on a Del-ton and do plan on shooting a lot, look at their custom options and pay $35 for a chrome lined barrel. $35 now will save you $150 in a few years.
As someone who does shoot competition and has been to war, I'm not a big fan of statements like these...
A bullet fired is a bullet fired, you're gun doesn't know the difference. Also if you want to compete, you're not buying a Colt M4, don't make me laugh. My advise is to cut through the marketing and think about what you are going to do with your rifle. Don't buy into the whole "serious shooters use this" mentality which isn't even true.
NWcityguy2
Member
I will also add that I do like the MOE handguards and grip over the standard ones. The buttstock isn't an improvement in my eyes but is still a good basic buttstock.
Outlaw Man
Member
It's about more than just a bullet being fired. I'm not referring to the overall life of the firearm. Most people, including professionals, won't ever see that, beyond changing the barrel and a few other components. I'm talking about the risk of your rifle breaking down when you've spent thousands of dollars (with entry fees, travel, etc.) to compete in the match. Properly staked carrier keys, bolts made to mil spec, tested and inspected barrels, parts installed to spec; they all make a more trouble-free and/or accurate rifle.NWcityguy2 said:
90% of DPMS owners out there will never see a problem or malfunction with their rifle. But I promise you, if you put the number of rounds through them that these guys are doing at professional and semi-professional levels, you'll eventually see a failure if there is a weak point. I'm not saying Del-Ton is as bad as DPMS, but I'm not going to try to kid someone into thinking they're as good as some of the others that have been mentioned here.
My brother has a Del-Ton that had a problem with stuck shells and the extractor ripping the heads off. It went away with different ammo, and it wasn't difficult to fix, but, as I was saying with my other post, by the time someone unfamiliar pays a gunsmith to fix the timing issue and stake the carrier key or replace the BCG, along with the ammo spent finding out the problem, you're already pretty near the price of some of those other rifles. If you want something to tinker with, by all means go ahead.
NWcityguy2
Member
Are you speaking about your experiences from shooting regional and national competitions? You aren't going to find a mil-spec BCG or barrel there. Also every gun that gets shot heavily will need parts replaced.
I'm sure you mean well but the points you are trying to make are off base. I don't think they apply to a person looking for their first general purpose AR either.
Ed Ames
Member
On the subject of first time AR, I think the buyer is a major factor easily overlooked.
A friend of mine is in the process of getting his first AR. He bought the bare lower, parts, etc. and assembled it himself. He doesn't have the funds for the upper he wants but has borrowed one from me to verify his build works. When he has money he will build up the upper too.
Would I recommend that to everyone? No, but for some people it is a valid choice and will save them money over buying an assembled gun only to start swapping parts
Other people should get a LMT or the like and trust that it was built right (because they lack the mechanical savvy to judge for themselves).
The AR market is switching to a buyer's market, especially compared to 3-5 years ago. Personally, I think waiting until after Xmas will yield better deals but if I had to buy today S&W sport would be the "high end" limit.
As for competitors, if they don't have spares they weren't serious.
A friend of mine is in the process of getting his first AR. He bought the bare lower, parts, etc. and assembled it himself. He doesn't have the funds for the upper he wants but has borrowed one from me to verify his build works. When he has money he will build up the upper too.
Would I recommend that to everyone? No, but for some people it is a valid choice and will save them money over buying an assembled gun only to start swapping parts
Other people should get a LMT or the like and trust that it was built right (because they lack the mechanical savvy to judge for themselves).
The AR market is switching to a buyer's market, especially compared to 3-5 years ago. Personally, I think waiting until after Xmas will yield better deals but if I had to buy today S&W sport would be the "high end" limit.
As for competitors, if they don't have spares they weren't serious.
AABEN
Member
I like the Arma Lite 15 A-4B 22 in 1/9 shoots 1/2 at 100 yards. I am 74 and can not shoot like I do 20 years ago.
Outlaw Man
Member
I should have said mil-spec as a minimum to be more clear, but you're not going to find many Del-Tons out there, either.NWcityguy2 said:
That's exactly why I asked what the OP is planning to use the rifle for. You're the one that seemed to imply, by directly calling out and refuting my statement, that there's very little difference between a Del-Ton and a $2000 AR-15. I'm only trying to make sure the OP doesn't really believe that. If that's not your intent, we're both wasting thread space.NWcityguy2 said:
sappyg
Member
Knowing what I know now.... If I were buying my 1st AR I would buy a S&W M&P sport. The cheaper the better.
I see no reason why the Del-ton wouldn't serve the same purpose very well. My 1st was a Bushmaster XM-15 (?)... HBAR. That darn thing was freaky accurate.
I see no reason why the Del-ton wouldn't serve the same purpose very well. My 1st was a Bushmaster XM-15 (?)... HBAR. That darn thing was freaky accurate.
breakingcontact
Member
ohbythebay
Member
I too have to suggest the S&W
The Smith & Wesson M&P 15 is without a doubt, dollar for dollar one of the best buys out there. Reliable, accurate, solid. Perfect for plinking at the range but will stand up to abuse as well.
I say this not only as an owner, but at approx. $550 shipped, nothing can touch it (in that price range) that does not have some history of problems in some form or another. If you buy it, you wont be sorry.
The Smith & Wesson M&P 15 is without a doubt, dollar for dollar one of the best buys out there. Reliable, accurate, solid. Perfect for plinking at the range but will stand up to abuse as well.
I say this not only as an owner, but at approx. $550 shipped, nothing can touch it (in that price range) that does not have some history of problems in some form or another. If you buy it, you wont be sorry.
d2wing
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- Nov 10, 2008
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There are several good choices in the $600 range that are good AR's for general use. I just had bought a Del-ton Dissapator kit that The bolt stuck in, Just shooting may have fixed it but I decided that that was the wrong style for me and exchanged it for a Del-ton 20 inch rifle kit and I am very happy with it. It is made correctly everything is tight and was able to shoot a one inch group at one hundred yards, my third group with factory ammo. I used a Leupold AR scope.
To do better you would have to go to match barrel and trigger. It is not chrome lined but for my use it doesn't matter.
To do better you would have to go to match barrel and trigger. It is not chrome lined but for my use it doesn't matter.
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strykerfire
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