First time Flinter - Help

[higene]

Today I became the proud owner of a Lyman Great Plains Rifle in .54 flint (left Hand). I have shot 54's in percussion. I gather from reading the posts that The GPR flinters are made for patched balls and I plan to shoot those. I got some patches and will cast some balls. I have some Triple 7 FF which I plan to shoot. I need some pan powder and I hope to find some tomorrow.

The question that I have is about the pan priming. Also the gun has a flint but it looks a little ratty. I plan to ream out the flash hole with a nipple pick. It seems to me to be the main thing on this gun. I really don't want to load this thing up and then not be able to get the thing to go off and have to go through the hassle of pulling the ball and all that.

Any helpful hints would be appreciated.

Gene

 

[mykeal]

Forget the 777. It won't work in a flintlock. You must use real black powder for both the main and pan charges or you will get very inconsistent results. Pyrodex and others will fire occasionally, and 777 will fail to fire almost all the time. The synthetics all have higher ignition temperatures and 777 is the highest.

It is possible to use a duplex charge of 10 gr of real black followed by the rest Pyrodex or even 777, but you will need at least that much real black to get it to work.

The Lyman GPR will work with a touch hole of up to 5/64" diameter, but staying below that is better. You can ream the touch hole up to that diameter if necessary to clean it out. However, the biggest problem with fouling will not be in the touch hole itself, it'll be in the flash channel between the touch hole and the powder chamber in the breech plug. The GPR has a patent breech, and that flash channel is subject to being clogged with crud. The best solution is a very thorough cleaning with hot water and soap; you should be able to draw hot soapy water into the barrel through the touch hole and flash channel using the cleaning jag and a cleaning patch, then force it back out through the hole the same way. If you can force water back out through the hole, observe it for clarity and lack of fouling material. That should show you it's clear.

Pan powder must be at least fffg or ffffg real black powder. Do not fill the pan; a small amount of primer is all that's necessary. Be sure not to cover the touch hole with the primer powder.

 

[Brillo]

Mykeal's advice is right on. Start with 2F black powder for the charge and 4F to prime the pan. I shoot exclusively 777 out or my flintlock now, but you do have to charge with 5 - 10 gr. of 4F first and subtract that from the 777 charge, and the total charge should be 10% less than black powder for max charge loads. Start with black powder though and don't use with max charges until you are comfortable with the flintlock ignition system.
Starting with patched round balls is also a good idea. You didn't say what the twist rate of the barrel was. A slow twist such as 1:60 is intended for PRB and will not shoot conicals very accurately because the twist rate is too slow to stabilize a longer projectile. The greater the distance to the target, the more this shows up. My Great Plains Hunter has a fast twist rate, 1:32 if I remember correctly, which is excellent for conicals. Also, some barrels are 1:48 but I don’t think the GP rifles are available with this twist rate. It is a compromise anyway, meaning that it will shoot PRB and shorter conicals with acceptable accuracy but doesn't really do either optimally. Later on you can always buy the other twist rate barrel from Lyman and interchange them. It only takes a minute or two.
Flintlocks are great fun. Hope you enjoy yours.

 

[4v50 Gary]

If 4F is hard to find, you can use 3F for the pan. Early frontiersmen didn't carry a priming horn and primed from their (only) powder horn. Similarly, soldiers didn't carry a priming horn (until late 18th Century) and most primed from their paper cartridges. I tell you this so you don't think all is lost if that elusive 4F powder isn't obtainable in your area.

 

[mykeal]

GPR barrels are all roundball barrels: 1:60. Unless, of course, it's been replaced by some aftermarket barrel.

 

[ALERIC]

Another thing to do is order a RMC touch hole liner replacement makes the Lyman go off every time. WWW.rmcsports.com

 

[DuncanSA]

Welcome! I am getting to grips with my Xmas GPR. Flint is really fun and if you set it up right is as quick to fire as anything else.
There is a lot of useful stuff on the net - any search engine will find it for you.

 

[ALERIC]

Try t he Traditional Muzzleloader Forum one section on Flintlocks

 

[Macmac]

I shoot flinters more than any other type of gun and can not improve upon mykeal's wisdoms.

Well maybe I can, since this is patent breech. Find and discover what ever modern mop fits in that part of the bore, probably before you ever first fire the gun.

I don't know what size mop that would be or I would tell you, but it will be under bore size, and it must be cleaned as if it were the bore itself.

I have no idea what the shape of this particular breech is, but if you can get the dimentions making a breech scraper wouldn't be a bad idea.

I make these of a broken TC worm, the kind with 2 stainless steel wires used to retract a lost patch. But the ones i use are broken and the wires are gone.

I simply run a hack saw into the slot where the wire was crimped, and then fit a small piece of copper in the slot and solder it. This makes a breech face scraper.

I have one for each gun.

 

[mykeal]

.32 cal for the GPR patent breech. The best idea I've seen so far has been a 1/4 dowel rounded off on the end and with a slit cut in it to mount a patch. I'll see if I can find the picture.

I just use hot water and soap and have had no buildup in either my .54 flinter or .54 percussion GPR's.

 

[Macmac]

I just believe there are those who don't understand what a pattent breech means under cleaning. So they don't get cleaned properly.

Once someone brought a long gun to me and had tried to pull the breech plug with out removing the cap lock flash tube and made a Royal mess of the threads.

 

[Brillo]

Mykeal is technically correct about the twist rate on the Lyman Great Plains Rifle (1:60). But the faster twist (1:32) Lyman Great Plains Hunter Rifle barrels will drop right into the GPR enabling it to shoot conicals. The barrels are readily available.

 

[higene]

.54 Flint

.54 Flint
All

I finally rounded up all the stuff I needed to make the GPR go off. I tried 60 g ff and ffff pan powder (Goex). I ran a patched ball. First shot was 2" left and 2" low. For the next two shots I added a little Kentucky windage and got a 1.2" group (exterior). That came out a little over 1/2 " center to center (all at 25 Yds).

I'm hooked! I see some real potential in this rifle. Thanks for all your help.

How often do you run H2O in the barrel? I cleaned it all up with TC 13. I ran patches till they came out of the bore clean and cleaned all the small parts with q-tips.


Thanks again,

Higene

 

[messerist]

FYI Dixie Gun Works sells a bore brush. It threads on to your ramrod and makes short work of the breech end of your GPR. Part number BH1023 phosphor bronze wire breech brush $3.50. I've used them for years on my GPR.

 

[Voodoochile]

Now I do not have a Flinter but I do have its smaller brother Lyman Trade Rifle in Percussion .50 & that is the only down side "personally" that I see with it is the Patent Breach set up, it's nice don't get wrong but my normal cleaning methods do not get a patch down in there.
I've went with a brass sloted cleaning jag on my cleaning kit with a patch through the slot & then a corner bent over the jag so that it cleans the back as well as the sides of the patent breach.

I too just use Hot soapy water to clean, then WD/40 to displace the moisture dry patch it a few times & then a coat of Ballistol for long term storage.

 

[Magwa45]

Let me know how it shoots. I have a percussion GPR and am thinking of getting a flintlock version. It is about the only flint below $1,000.

 

[Pancho]

Macmac has an excellent point in that there are those that don't know what a "Patent Breech" is. I happen to be one of them please explain.

 

[Pancho]

Randy Wakeman, a man considered to be an expert in the blackpowder community, stated that Pyrodex Select is formulated to shoot reliably in a flinter. You probably will still need 3f or 4f in the pan to touch it all off. Myself, I think I would follow 4v50 and use 3f for the charge and the pan. Who wants to fiddle with two powders when a fast second shot is needed in the field.

 

[mykeal]

Randy Wakeman is anything but an expert in black powder. He has no credibility with anyone I know.

The vast majority of serious flintlock shooters use only real black powder for both main and primer charges. I invite you to review a forum dedicated to flintlocks to get that information first hand:
The Muzzleloading Forum - Flintlock Rifles or American Long Rifles forum

While using the 3f in the pan and for the main charge will work it's actually no more effort to use different granulations. I keep my primer in a small charger attached to my possible bag with a thong and keep a speed loader in the bag; there's no confusion and no extra motion needed.

Strictly speaking the term 'patent breech' refers to a design more correctly known as Nock's patent breech, which is a small chamber in the breech end for holding the powder charge and connected to the flash hole by a narrow passageway. It incorporates a cleanout screw to use in keeping the channel clear; one problem with chambered breeches is they tend to collect fouling and are difficult to clean without a special tool. Over the years the term patent has become synonymous with the term chambered breech, which is a generic term covering many similar designs.

Here's a cutaway view of a Nock's breech:



This is a diagram of Nock's patent breech compared to a similar design:

 

[sundance44s]

Set your flintlock up right use only real black powder ...don`t over prime the pan useing too much pan primer will cause it to hang fire ( delay fire ) Pan primer should be the size of the head of a Kitchen match and placed 1/8 inch in front of the flash hole ..For less knaping on your flint ..you can flatten a round ball with a hammer and cut a flint wrap out of the lead ...this will take the bounce out of the flint strikeing the frizzen ..and your flint will knap it`s self each time you fire the rifle .
Also stay away from cut flints ...buy a good grade of knapped black English flints ..these flints seem to work best with every flintlock I`ve owned ........some guns can be a little pickey about flint types and such ...but the black English flints seem to be a good starting point for most . With a flint lock rifle set up right you should be able to hold the rifle upside down and it should still fire and fire as quick as a cap lock .

 

[madcratebuilder]

Randy Wakeman is anything but an expert in black powder. He has no credibility with anyone I know.

Now that's just a down right stupid statement.

I know Mr Wakeman supports in-liners and is 'out of favor' with the traditionalists, but that hardly makes him less of an expert.
He is a 'professional' employed by Savage Arms. I think he would meet the legal requirements of an 'expert witness'.

I well let Mr Wakeman speak for him self.

http://randywakeman.com/index.htm

 

[mykeal]

Actually that's a very good idea to let his writing speak for him. I came to my position by reading Mr. Wakeman's writings.

As for meeting the legal requirements as an 'expert' witness, employment by a firearms manufacturer would mean the janitor at Ruger's casting plant would qualify, so that's hardly meaningful. He is not presently nor has he ever been certified as an expert witness by any jurisdiction.

 

[[email protected]]

You know, I have the same opion after reading quite a bit also as Mykeal.

 

[higene]

Ignition

I don't know much about correct master on the path of the traditional muzzle loader. I do know I was having trouble getting my Howdah to go off using 777 ff. I switched nipples and went to a duplex load of 20 grains of ff Goex and varying amounts of 777 ff. It lights every time now.

There seems to be a old vs new thing going on with varying amounts of testosterone thrown in. I am trying to mellow with age. My advice is meditate and read patches.

Higene

 

[Pancho]

You speak wisely Higene. I've been shooting muzzleloaders since 1964. As the local suppliers of bp dried up around here I started using pyrodex simply because it was and is available everywhere and bp is not. I don't want to put a hex on myself but I can state that I've only had one misfire in my percussion guns over the years and that was my fault. As for my flinters bp still is the way to go. I am tempted to try the Pyrodex Select in one of my flinters just because I can.