First time loading, Tell me Im doing it right!

[smovlov]

Hey all,

Been reading on the topic of reloading for the better part of two years. Just got a lee turret press the other day and started making some dummy rounds. I don't have someone locally to tell me if Im screwing up so Im looking to you guys for help!

Brass is once fired WWB
Bullet is 158gr lead SWC from Space Coast Bullets in Melbourne, FL
Powder will be Titegroup
Primer: Winchester Small Pistol

Just using the standard Lee 3 die set for .357/.38

COL is 1.489 +/- .002

Will be fired out of a S&W Mod 19

Questions:

Should I be seating a little bit deeper into the crimp groove?

Even with the expander all the way down the brass was shaving lead. I chamfered the cases and it seemed to take the problem away. The expander doesn't seem to be expanding the mouth that much, maybe .001". Is this normal?

I can also feel where the bullet is in the case. The body of the case where no bullet is is .373" and where the bullet sits is .375". Again, Normal?

Would it be OK to pull these and reload them with powder and primer or should I just scrap them?

Also I have the Lee manual and the Lyman 49th. read the Lyman front to back and have looked through the Lee. Ill be starting at 3.2 and go up in .2 grain increments to 3.8 and I wont be loading live rounds till I get all this ironed out

Thanks for all the help!

 

[Walkalong]

Should I be seating a little bit deeper into the crimp groove?

Yes, and when the case mouth is properly rolling into the crimp groove the lead shaving will go away as well, assuming a proper belling.

Welcome to THR

 

[Missionary]

Greetings
Welcome to the Forum !
Cast Bullets. The first step with a laed bullet is to be sure it not too small for your revolver. Think of a piston. Too small a piston and there is combussion leakage. Hot gas flowing past a lead piston is not good.
So take one of those lead bullets and see what kind of fit exists as you push it through the chambers. A wood dowel, pencil, plastic rod.. most anything but a steel rod. Start at the rear of the cylinder and push it through. Hopefully there is good resistance as the bullet goes through the Throat area. Some throats can be .360+ on a caliber .358. I want all my lead bullets to not easy slip through a throat. I want resistance. I want a good seal in that throat area. .001 too small is not good. .001 oversize is good.

Yes your loaded cartrige diameter at the seated bullet should be more. See if this "dummy" will chamber in all chambers.

Yes you can seat a bit deeper But it may not improve accuracy. If you were seeing the bullets creep out during recoil then absolutely seat deeper.

Expander.. have you lowered the expander body all the way down so it touches the shell holder on the press ? If so remove the expander from the die body and verify if it is some what funnel shaped (wider towards the top) on the shaft that enters the cartridge case . If not it is not correct. If it is wider then place a couple washers of the proper diameter in the expander body so the adjuster holds the expander lower down.

Pull these and reload.. Once again before reload that lead bullet do the chanber throat test. If they are too small do not use them.
Happy reloading and even happier launching.

Mike in Peru

 

[rcmodel]

He is using Lee dies.

The Lee powder-through expander is what it is.

But a properly designed expander / flaring tool for lead bullets it isn't.



rc

 

[oneounceload]

Those bullets need to be seated deeper as in the photo below your post. Flare enough so the bullet will sit on top without you holding it - no more - and then crimp as required into the groove

 

[Comrade Mike]

What they said above. Everything sounds good. You can pull and reuse dummy rounds.

As stated above, seat deeper.

 

[nix4me]

Welcome - i live about 10 miles from Space Coast bullets. I echo above, seat fully into the groove and apply a mild crimp.

 

[Comrade Mike]

One thing to keep in mind some cast bullets will require you to load shorter than the manual to hit the crimp grove. You can do one of two things. Load to the manual and taper crimp or load short to the crimping grove and work up normally being aware pressure signs may pop up a bit sooner.

 

[Walkalong]

Forget any OAL in the book and seat the bullet so the case mouth is properly crimped into the crimp groove. That is the correct OAL for brass at that length with that bullet.

 

[Hondo 60]

If it's shaving, you need to expand more.

I'd probably seat 'em a bit deeper, but what does your load data say?
Remember, the deeper you seat 'em, the higher the pressure.
So stay within published data!

There's no reason to pull 'em from the info you gave.
They look fine.

How much Tite Group are you using?

 

[smovlov]

Thank you for all the great input! Ill start from the top.

Walkalong:

Thanks for the clear photo! Where does the Mob quote from your signature line come from?

Mike:

The bullets are a tight fit in the chamber throat. I didn't measure it as I don't have any pin gauges but they will fit if I force it through. I slugged my barrel and came up with .355 at its smallest. I just ran a lead slug straight through. The bullets are sized .357 from my measurements. The dummys rounds will go into the cylinders.

oneounce:

The bullet sits fine on top. The flare is not huge like Ive seen in some photos I assume because of the Lee expander. The bevel base I think also helps the bullet sit on top. Ive got the expander all the way down and thats as much flare as I get.

Hondo:

Ill be starting at 3.2 and going up in .2 grain increments to 3.8. Both Hodgdon and Lee List min max as this (as I understand, Lee pulls all their info from powder manufacturers so this makes sense). However Lyman #49 2.9-3.3 grains for their 158 grain 358665. Not really getting any serious shaving now and what I think is there is just lube.

Any reason I should start at 2.9 and work from there?

My average for COL is 1.473". High was 1.477". Low was 1.470". Standard deviation is .002". Are the highs and lows caused by using a concave seating plug with a flat nosed bullet?

Thanks again!

 

[Sunray]

You're doing just fine. Those .38 Special cases? With a Smith 19(or any .357. Had a 4" 19 for years.), if you ever decide to shoot .357 out of it, you'll have to clean the lube gunk ring out of the cylinders first. No big deal. A .45 cleaning brush will take it right out. Loading .357 cases to .38 velocities eliminates it.
"...start at 2.9..." Not really. 2.7 of Bullseye has been the standard .38 Special target load with a 148 grain WC, for eons. Titegroup isn't the same powder.

 

[Comrade Mike]

A .003 swing in bullet seating depth is insignificant in a rifle, so don't even worry about it in a hand gun. If ever in doubt, set your calipers to .003 and tell me if you think that would make any noticeable difference. I used to get real hung up on exact numbers too, but you'll slowly learn what's an acceptable tolerance and what's out of whack.

 

[Walkalong]

Where does the Mob quote from your signature line come from?

Heard it on talk radio around 15 years ago.

The latest pics look great, and yea, a .003 spread is very good.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

smovlov,
I can't remember ever measuring the OAL of a .38 Special round. You should crimp into the crimp groove supplied by the manufacturer because that will seat the bullet to the correct OAL. The OAL listed in any recipe is useless unless you are using the same exact bullet and brass and that brass is trimmed to the same exact length they did.

You like like you're doing fine. Keep up the good work...
Welcome to the forum.

 

[smovlov]

Got the .38 loaded up. .2 grain increments all the way up to 3.8 grains. I started loading up the .357 and figured out my flaring issues in the process. Turns out I don't have the .38/.357 dies, there only for 357. It seems that the expander is shorter and doesn't allow the .38 to go all the way to the shoulder of the expander. I was able to get the right amount of expansion on the .357 and not get any bullet shaving. I got a very tiny amount (a hairs worth) but I don't think its enough to make a difference. We will see in the near future!

Thank you all for the encouragement and all the advice. It is much appreciated!

 

[Comrade Mike]

Here's the nickel piece of advice for keeping ladder tests straight,
Masking tape and sharpies are your best friends . I have 3 rolls on my bench, with a super permanent sharpie.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Here's the nickel piece of advice for keeping ladder tests straight,
Masking tape and sharpies are your best friends . I have 3 rolls on my bench, with a super permanent sharpie.

View attachment 187167

Good advice. I do it in a slightly different manner. I use a different color marker for each load and color in the primers. A note in the case tells me which are which and the colors go away when I decap.

 

[smovlov]

Range Report

All went bang! No big bangs either. I read the "Handloading Mishaps?" thread earlier and had me second guessing myself but I went through the steps in my head and remembered I did everything right.

A few questions though...

Is it normal to see a tiny bit of leading? I had a small patch in the groove right after the forcing cone. This brings me to my next question...

On the 3rd load of the .38 I was shooting along then on the fifth shot I had a flyer. Everything felt OK but I decided to stop to see what was up. the shot broke cleanly and I didn't flinch. I inspected the barrel and noticed a little bit of lead in the groove near the forcing cone and some lead in the cylinders at the front of the throat. Nothing that looked out of the ordinary. I scrubbed it out and went on the fire the sixth shot. The sixth shot was also a flyer that felt like it broke cleanly. All other flyers Ive had I knew it immediately. These two were surprising. All strings were fired rested (except for the first) from 21ft (7yd). All were also fired single action. Could this have been an ammunition problem? The first four grouped well and the last two threw it out the window.

Loads were:

.38 Special
1) 3.2 gr Titegroup Win SPP
2) 3.4 gr Titegroup Win SPP
3) 3.6 gr Titegroup Win SPP
4) 3.8 gr Titegroup Win SPP

.357 Magnum
1) 4.5 gr Titegroup Win SPP
2) 4.7 gr Titegroup Win SPP
3) 4.9 gr Titegroup Win SPP
4) 5.0 gr Titegroup Win SPP

I might load up the 3.6 38 again and see if I can keep it tight. Should I also go 3.5 and 3.7 too to see if it falls off after there? Would I do the same thing with the best load (4.9gr Titegroup) for .357?

Thank you all! Super stoked everything well. You wouldnt think someone would be this happy to pay 350$ for 50 rounds but its pretty satisfying and will pay off in the long run!

 

[ATLDave]

I do yet another thing for ladder loading. The first load gets a single swipe across the base with a sharpie. The second gets two parallel swipes. The third gets an X/cross shape. Fourth gets a triangle. As with Arch's method, even the rounds get dumped out in the ammo bag, I can still tell what's what. And tumbling knocks the marks right off the brass.