First time this happened to me at the range

[ColdDeadHand]

I've never had any troubles at my favorite unsupervised range here in MO. Just a bunch of good ole' boys for the most part. And most of us do keep a sidearm on our hip, myself included. No one has to say why and no one has had to pull one yet that I know about. It's just a silent reminder...that our range will be a polite society.

 

[jcwit]

I've never had any troubles at my favorite unsupervised range here in MO. Just a bunch of good ole' boys for the most part. And most of us do keep a sidearm on our hip, myself included. No one has to say why and no one has had to pull one yet that I know about. It's just a silent reminder...that our range will be a polite society.
__________________
Owner

Right, it also seems like alot of the "young guys, I think" are trying to come across as hot heads and quick on the trigger when it comes to bossing others around. Like they need an ego trip or something.

 

[gamestalker]

I had an experience that nearly ended with an exchange of gun fire, all because of someone who had absolutely no concept of gun safety. In Yuma Arizona our shooting range is unsupervised, but it is a really well kept range and offers something for every taste, archery, shotgun, black powder, handgun, rifle 100 yds. to 300 yds., and we also have a 1000 yd. range.
While at the 100 yd. to 300 yd. range my self and the other's collectively decided to go down range and change targets or what ever. There was still one man at the firing line to which we informed of our intentions. We specifically let him know we were going down range and assumed he knew what that indicated, don't shoot until we have returned to the firing line. While the group of us were at about the 200 yd burm walking back, the individual at the firing line opens up with his AR 15. We all hit the dirt instantly, myself and a couple other's unholstered our side arms and took sight on him while yelling at him to cease fire and lay the weapon down now! Fortunately he was not wearing any ear protection and heard us and complied, or things could have become deadly to the point of traggic real quick. When we all had all returned to the firing line things got really hinky, and resulted in the irresponsible shooter being ordered to leave. I didn't engage him and instead packed and left, with no intention of returning to this range or any other, ever!
I've had countless close calls around other's who carelessly handled firearms, with some circumstances nearly costing me my life. Friends that have almost shot me while hunting, and far too many other incidents to post, that would have certainly resulted in my death, if not for the grace of God. But this one was the straw that broke the camels back, so to speak. I now have a couple of real nice spots to shoot where I don't have to contend with near death experiences. I've been to a lot of well supervised ranges and had good experiences at them.
But, all it takes is one idiot a fraction of a second to cost an innocent person their life. Some of the ranges I've shot at will have 20 or so shooting stations, and one really good out spoken supervisor. I've seen a good range master tell someone point blank, to pack and leave. I find this to be the only way to deal with individuals who regard gun safety is rediculous. I've heard remarks from people such as " Come on, I'm not a child " or " Don't worry, I'm not going to acidentally shoot anyone" this is when a well focussed range master sends them packing.
So if you ask me about a bad experience while visiting a shooting range, my answer from now on is, I don't go to them any more. I also don't go shooting with anyone except my own family. My Wife and I have a bunch of Grand Children and Nephews and Nieces to which all are trained in proper gun safety as soon as they can walk. My 3 yr. old Grand Daughter demonstrates excellent gun safety and is fully aware that a gun is not a toy. She has more respect for a firearm than most adults I've encountered in gun shops.
I know I went over board on this response, but it really hit home with me and thus deserved an elaborate reflection of my experiences at shooting facilities.

 

[jcwit]

OK, returning fire to someone who is shooting at targets "I presume" even tho you are down range and it is of course very unsafe and not to be condoned, I also doubt would stand up in your favor in a court of law.

If perchance you or one of your friends would have shot and killed the idiot, I easily could see a prison sentence in ones future. Course you would be alive.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I'm sorry, but if someone is sending bullets towards someone I love, or towards me, I am going to send bullets back at them. I will probably send bullets back at them if they are sending bullets towards a complete stranger. That's just the way I am. You shoot at me or my family, I am going to shoot back at you. That's why I carry a gun. That's also why in 27 years of military service, every range I have been on in the military has an armed RSO.

It's called the law of necessity. An action is justified if it is necessary to do so to prevent grave bodily injury or death to someone.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Necessity+defense

necessity

A defense asserted by a criminal or civil defendant that he or she had no choice but to break the law.

The necessity defense has long been recognized as Common Law and has also been made part of most states' statutory law. Although no federal statute acknowledges the defense, the Supreme Court has recognized it as part of the common law. The rationale behind the necessity defense is that sometimes, in a particular situation, a technical breach of the law is more advantageous to society than the consequence of strict adherence to the law. The defense is often used successfully in cases that involve a Trespass on property to save a person's life or property. It also has been used, with varying degrees of success, in cases involving more complex questions.

Almost all common-law and statutory definitions of the necessity defense include the following elements: (1) the defendant acted to avoid a significant risk of harm; (2) no adequate lawful means could have been used to escape the harm; and (3) the harm avoided was greater than that caused by breaking the law. Some jurisdictions require in addition that the harm must have been imminent and that the action taken must have been reasonably expected to avoid the imminent danger. All these elements mirror the principles on which the defense of necessity was founded: first, that the highest social value is not always achieved by blind adherence to the law; second, that it is unjust to punish those who technically violate the letter of the law when they are acting to promote or achieve a higher social value than would be served by strict adherence to the law; and third, that it is in society's best interest to promote the greatest good and to encourage people to seek to achieve the greatest good, even if doing so necessitates a technical breach of the law.

The justification is simple - I cannot ascertain the reason the person is shooting in the direction of the people who are downrange. How do I know they aren't a suicidal maniac who wants to kill as many people as they can before killing themselves? Do I take the time to ask them what their intentions are?

Again, we are talking about someone shooting in the direction of other people who are downrange when the range is cold and are in immediate danger of being killed.

So, in the OP's scenario, IF there were people downrange, and IF they are in danger of being shot and killed... I AM going to shoot back. End of story. I couldn't live with myself if a complete stranger got killed, and I could stop it... let alone if it was a member of my family downrange and in danger.

 

[jcwit]

I believe it would take only a second to determine if one was shooting at me versus shooting at a target, granted it is inexcusable. No to hard to figure out.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I believe it would take only a second to determine if one was shooting at me versus shooting at a target, granted it is inexcusable. No to hard to figure out.

Yep. In the OP's scenario guy shows up, walks up to the line, and starts shooting. Clearly he is not shooting at a target, because he didn't put any targets downrange, only bullets. Given that set of circumstances, IF there were people downrange, how could you possibly use the excuse, well, I thought he was shooting at targets? Especially IF those people downrange were your wife, or 14 yr old daughter with an amputated foot that walks with a prosthetic leg?

Life is too precious to leave in the hands of an idiot shooting in the direction of people downrange.

 

[The-Reaver]

I mean I have rolled up to my range to fire off only a few rounds, and leave. But that's just rude man. Sorry that happened to you.

 

[jcwit]

My final comment on this is being neither myself or any others here other than the OP were there we can only surmise as to what was actually going on. We are hearing one side of the story, if in fact that was the exact way it happened, who knows.

 

[wishin]

It was probably just some guy checking his gun out before a contract hit.

 

[btg3]

We are hearing one side of the story, if in fact that was the exact way it happened, who knows.

There is huge potential to save a whole LOT of bandwidth if filters could be applied to eliminate one-sided, speculative posts/threads. But hey, doesn't the whole vicarious thing suck most of us in -- whether it's ball games, mall ninjas, soap operas, or reality TV -- why else does that stuff sell?

 

[SSN Vet]

the biggest benefit to the swipe card is knowledge...

We have a great relationship with our local PD, and they often trains on our facility. So we can usually get a sympathetic ear and a little help if we can call in a trespassing or vandalism complaint. All the more, now that we can provide a license plate number.

We shelled out a fair penny to have an NRA tech. consultant come out last summer to review of our range safety and to my knowledge, we've implemented all of their recommendations.

I'm not on the range committee and don't frequent meetings, but I would not at all be surprised if the card swipe gate came out of the last NRA audit.