*FIRST* World War Rifles?

[dc.fireman]

To heck with the rifles - that is possibly the most awesome wood floor I've ever seen!

 

[Germster]

About 30 years ago RKO the movie company released their Mannlicher Berthiers, Remington made, for sale. I bought one at Martin Rettings in Culver City. Cost was $125. It came from a case of guns and was absolutely brand new. I also got the bayonet and a few clips. It was loaded with a three shot box magazine a la Garand, which are impossible to find today. Since it was magazine fed you can shoot pointed bullets in it, but mine shoots around corners. Key-holed as I recall.

When you watch the old movie Beau Gues the actors are using these Hollywood sourced, Remington made Mannlicher Berthiers.

Eventually the French lenthened the magazine so it held more rounds.

 

[Germster]

I don't have any, but I'm thinking of getting a Mosin Nagant 91 as a late birthday present.

Big Five where I live has new ones for sale for $80 and they come with a sling and some other stuff. They are round breech guns, but that's no never mind.

 

[jrdale84]

Considering that the M1917 Enfiled is what the vast majority of the AEF doughboys actually carried in WWI, with many soldiering with GIs and Marines in WWII, for me it wins out on history alone. That it is accurate, tough as nails, has great sights and matches up with a huge bayonet are all pluses as well. See http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=368166 for pics of mine.

Worth mentioning - the Polar Bear Expedition (the AEF force sent to Russia) which fought on after the armistice and has been greatly forgotten by Americans carried Mosins.

I have my Great-grand Father's Mosin (2LT with the 339th IN) & his S&W-45 & M1911 that he carried at Archangel. Ironically the Mosin was built right here in the US (by Westinghouse) as part of a manufacturing deal and exported to Russia. When the AEF arrived they drew the weapons from the White Russian armory's with the logic that the ammunition would be plentiful.

Seeing as the AEF pretty much used anything they could get since the US Army was just starting to do this sort of expeditionary outside US borders kind of stuff. I think today we get this sense of feeling that we have always had this world wide military presence and defense industry.

 

[Cosmoline]

The volley sights on individual rifles very quickly went away.

Tangent sights calibrated for extreme range lingered on long after the need for them was gone. I've never been able to find out why, exactly. It isn't until well into the WWII era that you start seeing more rational calibrations from 100 to 500 meters instead of the WWI standard of from 300 to 2,000 meters with a ladder sight option.

I think today we get this sense of feeling that we have always had this world wide military presence and defense industry.

That's a really good point, and one that gets overlooked a lot in collecting. The US prior to WWI was a lesser military power. We had beaten the remnants of the Spanish empire, but had never taken on a modern European power. Our own military was small and looked to Europe for its guidance. I think this is why we ended up with Krag rifles and a Mauser variation instead of something like a Savage 99.

There were also some problems with our arms industry. Early Springfields with brittle receivers, the Bertheirs rejected by the French as substandard, and so on.

 

[cluttonfred]

Worth mentioning - the Polar Bear Expedition (the AEF force sent to Russia) which fought on after the armistice and has been greatly forgotten by Americans carried Mosins.

I have my Great-grand Father's Mosin (2LT with the 339th IN) & his S&W-45 & M1911 that he carried at Archangel. Ironically the Mosin was built right here in the US (by Westinghouse) as part of a manufacturing deal and exported to Russia. When the AEF arrived they drew the weapons from the White Russian armory's with the logic that the ammunition would be plentiful.

Seeing as the AEF pretty much used anything they could get since the US Army was just starting to do this sort of expeditionary outside US borders kind of stuff. I think today we get this sense of feeling that we have always had this world wide military presence and defense industry.

Thanks for that post, I just spend some time reading up on the Archangel and Vladivostok expeditions, learn something new every day.

 

[Germster]

Tangent sights calibrated for extreme range lingered on long after the need for them was gone. I've never been able to find out why, exactly. It isn't until well into the WWII era that you start seeing more rational calibrations from 100 to 500 meters instead of the WWI standard of from 300 to 2,000 meters with a ladder sight option.



That's a really good point, and one that gets overlooked a lot in collecting. The US prior to WWI was a lesser military power. We had beaten the remnants of the Spanish empire, but had never taken on a modern European power. Our own military was small and looked to Europe for its guidance. I think this is why we ended up with Krag rifles and a Mauser variation instead of something like a Savage 99.

There were also some problems with our arms industry. Early Springfields with brittle receivers, the Bertheirs rejected by the French as substandard, and so on.

What I can tell you about the Mannlicher Berthiers that I own is beautiful. The Frogs must have been jealous. They don't like our wine either, which some say is better.

I also own a Lebel which is heavy and had a tubular magazine, a la Mauser 71/84. It was King's patent and the French and the Germans paid Winchester a royalty.