(FL) Officer Killed At Football Game

[K-Romulus]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/24/AR2005092401828.html

Associated Press
Sunday, September 25, 2005; Page A09

ORLANDO, Sept. 24 -- A university police officer working with the state to curb underage drinking was shot to death by an Orlando police officer outside the Citrus Bowl Saturday as fans were arriving for a football game, authorities said.

Mario Jenkins, a canine officer working with agents of the Division of Alcoholic Beverages and Tobacco, was killed, said police Sgt. Troy Williamson of the University of Central Florida. Williamson said Jenkins was wearing street clothes. He did not discuss the circumstances of the shooting.

"You've got about 50 police officers and beverage agents who are in complete shock," Williamson said.

Witnesses told the Orlando Sentinel that the incident started when an undercover officer tried to break up a tailgate party. When he encountered resistance, they said, he fired three shots into the air. An Orlando police officer saw the man with the gun and shot him several times, the newspaper said.

Authorities believe a third person was involved, said Barbara Jones, spokeswoman for the Orlando Police Department. Jones did not say whether the person was injured.

The shooting occurred before a game between the University of Central Florida and Marshall University, which UCF won.

"It's pretty freaky. You don't think you would see this at a UCF game," said junior Nicole Jorgensen, 22.

 

[CDignition]

This is always at the back of my mind...you may be defending yourself and have your gun out, and u get shot by the cops, cause they dont know you are a good guy and not a bad guy...My best freind was at that game, ill ask him if he saw anything tomorrow

 

[Nightfall]

Discharging a firearm into the air, in a very crowded area? :banghead:

 

[Shootcraps]

Ok children, this question is worth 100 points for your final exam.

1. When is it acceptable to fire warning shots in the air?


If he really did this, it sounds like bad tactics to me.

 

[yorec]

Not enough detail to really figure out what happened... But if the UC fired three warning/attention getting shots in the air - they were at the least misinterpretted by the officer.

Tragic anecdotal evidence that warning shots are a bad idea.

 

[Waitone]

<sniff, sniff> Something just doesn't smell right about the story. Just out of curiosity, does any LE department of any level train its officers to shoot into the air UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES?

 

[mattman the gun fan]

i find this ironic. You would tyhink a officer of the law would know better than anyone that it is not a good idea to fire a weapon into the air under any circumstance. Foolish idea on him, also the other officers around the area should have been informed on what he was doing and that he was a under cover cop or whatever.

 

[Joejojoba111]

Sounds like new tactics may need to be implemented where you seek cover first, then take adequate time to ID your target, and assess it, then open fire.

It's stupid to shoot in the air for any reason, if it happened. And we are only discussing this hypothetically, so don't no-one come in and tell us all to shut up because we don't know all the facts.

But when you have officers killing other officers, you need to start teaching people to slow down, get cover first, then assess, then maybe shoot.

 

[CDignition]

I think this report is flawed...From what I have seen on TV, the Undercover guy had rubber bullets, and they said nothing about him firing into the air....it will take a few days for it to shake out correctly

 

[Gannet]

Sounds like poor judgement by both officers; unfortunately a tragedy ensued. My sympathies to all involved.

I wonder if the undercover officer put out a call for assistance before firing? And I wonder if they share communications with the regular police? And I wonder if trying to "break up a party" when in plain clothes is such a great idea?

Just random thoughts that are admittedly armchair quarterbacking.

Edited to add a link to a more complete story (still sketchy) from the Orlando Sentinel: OPD mistakenly kills UCF officer

 

[Gunsnrovers]

Some more information, but nearly enough to know what the heck was going on...

http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050925/NEWS01/509250345/1006

September 25, 2005

2 shot at UCF game; police officer dies

Orlando cop kills undercover officer during fight

BY JOHN DENTON
FLORIDA TODAY
Shocked. People react outside the Citrus Bowl in Orlando, where a University of Central Florida police officer was shot and killed by another officer before the game Saturday. AP
Enlarge this image



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ORLANDO - An Orlando police officer shot and killed a plainclothes officer from University of Central Florida on Saturday night at the Citrus Bowl, just minutes before the kickoff of a football game.

Witnesses said the UCF officer initially fired at least two shots while trying to break up a fight between fans. One of the fans was hit, witnesses said.

A uniformed Orlando police officer then fired at the UCF officer, striking him at least once. Witnesses said paramedics worked to revive the undercover officer before taking him away in an ambulance. He was pronounced dead at Orlando Regional Medical Center. The condition of the fan was not made public.

Mario Jenkins was identified as the officer who was shot and killed, said Sgt. Troy Williamson, spokesman for the university police department.

Jenkins was a canine officer and had been working with the Division of Alcoholic Beverages and Tobacco agents to curb underage drinking just before the UCF game with Marshall.

WKMG Local 6 News identified the Orlando officer as Dennis Smith. The officer has been placed on paid leave, pending the outcome an investigation, Local 6 reported.

Smith was retired and was working at the football game as a reserve officer, Local 6 said today.

The name of the fan was not immediately released.

"Two men were shot, and that's all we know right now," said Sgt. Barbara Jones of the Orlando Police Department. "We're investigating the shooting of multiple people."

Rusty McCormick of Jacksonville Beach, who witnessed the fighting and shootings, said he saw the Orlando officer fire multiple shots.

"The undercover cop turned around with his gun, and the real cop shoots three times -- boom, boom, boom," McCormick said.

Orlando's Jason Pfeiffer, a 2003 graduate of UCF, said the undercover agent, apparently unaware who was shooting at him, fired back at the Orlando officer before falling to the ground.

"It's pretty freaky," 22-year-old Nicole Jorgensen of Melbourne told The Associated Press. "You don't think you would see this at a UCF game."

 

[El Rojo]

When is it appropriate for an undercover officer to shoot at someone? When he feels his life is in danger. Could this UC have seen a threat and that is why he shot the tailgater? Most likely. The idea that he was firing warning shots most likely come from the witnesses, who are generally ignorant of the rules of self defense or police shootings and would assume he was firing warning shots. So it is highly probable that the UC was shooting at a real threat and along comes our reserve officer who opens up on the UC. The question is, did the reserve officer receive a briefing stating there would be armed undercover agents at the game? More importantly, did the departments all get together before hand and take a look at everyone?

Sometimes bad things happen. Maybe the UC did think he was under a real threat and he had to defend himself. Undercover or not, if he didn't defend himself, he might have died. So he does what any of us with a concealed weapon might do, we shoot. And another offficer sees this and assumes he is a real shooter and that officer needs to protect the public, so he shoots. It is called Murphy's law. The only blame you could possibly assess would be on the administration for not adequately informing everyone of the undercover officers presence. Possibly they did that and the reserve officer screwed up. I doubt it though. I think asking the officer to seek cover and identify the threat is probably not their department's policy and such a tactic sounds more like a Internet born policy. The uniformed officer obviously had a good place to shoot from and the ability, because the uniformed officer stopped the threat. That is unless maybe stray bullets from the uniformed officer is what caused the civilian casualty.

My head just spun in a cirlce. I am going to wait for more facts. Too many what ifs.

 

[Model520Fan]

And I wonder if trying to "break up a party" when in plain clothes is such a great idea?

Trying to perform a police function while disguised as a non-policeman, if that is what happened, is not always such a good idea.

I don't consider this Monday-morning quarterbacking. We do not know what happened there and cannot judge that case. but we can and certainly should think very seriously about how certain choices can drastically effect future outcomes.

The past is up to juries.

The future is at least partly up to us.

 

[Nimitz]

whats up with this?

Smith retired after 25 years in December of 2001.

the shooting cop was retired?...confused at the article...

Chad

 

[Joejojoba111]

I can't think of any time taking cover and assessing is a bad thing to do. Maybe in the middle of th Mohave.

There should be a general rule, telling people to be sure of their target and what's behind it, or something.

And you have to love how the UC shoots back at the uniformed officer. Now I want to hear the whole story too, because this is infreaking credible.

 

[Rockstar]

Hmmm: I wonder if Mario got his training in one of Action Jackson's classes?

 

[Gunsnrovers]

Hopefully, as it's in a stadium parking lot, there will be some decent video so they can try to get a handle on what went down. Trying to piece together a report from a bunch of fans who've been drinking at a pre-game tail gate party just seems like spitting in the wind.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Which is worse: a cop's death, or kids getting away with drinking?

 

[Tropical Z]

I feel sorry for the victim,but that's what the ATF gets for being so stupid.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

but that's what the ATF gets for being so stupid.

It wasn't ATF.

 

[Tropical Z]

Mario Jenkins, a canine officer working with agents of the Division of Alcoholic Beverages and Tobacco, was killed, said police Sgt. Troy Williamson of the University of Central Florida. Williamson said Jenkins was wearing street clothes. He did not discuss the circumstances of the shooting.

Its good to know that everyone was notified.

 

[Mannlicher]

sounds like the undercover cop made a fundamental error, and died as a result of his actions. Bad karma indeed, but understandable

 

[Aguila Blanca]

WKMG Local 6 News identified the Orlando officer as Dennis Smith. The officer has been placed on paid leave, pending the outcome an investigation, Local 6 reported.

Smith was retired and was working at the football game as a reserve officer, Local 6 said today.

Hmmm ...

How do you place someone who is retired from the force on paid leave?

 

[GRB]

Some of the posts in this thread are absolutely amazing with regard to their content. Somehow, from the conflicting reports that have been given in the press, some of you have posted:

that's what the ATF gets for being so stupid

sounds like the undercover cop made a fundamental error, and died as a result of his actions

I wonder if Mario got his training in one of Action Jackson's classes?

And I wonder if trying to "break up a party" when in plain clothes is such a great idea?

There were some others too but, these pretty much sum up some of the sentiment in this thread. For all we know, the so caled under-cover cop was only a plain clothes cop. For all we know he was faced with a life threatening situation that was an immediate threat and which needed to be taken care of immediately. We do know from the second report that he may not have been breaking up a party as the first treport mentioned but, was quite possibly breaking up some sort of a fight as per the second report. if that is correct, tell me what should he have done had someone in that fight faced an immediate life threatening situation. Should he have caled for help, or identified himself as a police officer and then taken action to stop the threat, or something else?

No we do not know where he got his training so we probably should not harp on it yet. We do not even know if the officer who was shot was actually a true undercover officer. My guess is that he was a plain clothes officer not an undercover. An undercover officer, in any department that has any real training in how to run UC ops, would have had a back-up team close to this guy, very close indeed and ready to take action. Other members ofthe UC team would be videoing and audio recording (independently) his actions and verbal communications. They would have also notified other officers in the area of a UC operation when so many other officers were in the area. My guess is that he was a plainclothes officer not a UC officer but; that is just a guess right now.

Did the cop who got shot make an error; did the officer who shot him make an error? It is likely that both made some sort of a mistake that led to the shooting but; maybe the officer who was shot did everything right. As for him turning and shooting at the 'uniformed officer' maybe he did - maybe he was already shot - maybe it was a reaction to being shot while already involved in another bad situation. We don't know who is wrong to what degree. We do not know for sure if the officer who was shot identified himself, if he actually turned on the other uniformed officer before being shot, if he fired warning shots in the air or fired shots at someone justifiably. The reports seemed based almost exclusively on eyewitness testimony, about the worst kind of evidence imaginable. It already sounds as if various people have given different accounts of the same thing.

Hopefully, this will be figured out in a better manner once all of the evidence is sorted through.

best regards,
Glenn B

 

[joab]

Something just doesn't smell right about the story. Just out of curiosity, does any LE department of any level train its officers to shoot into the air UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES?

The cop who was shot was campus police.
I don't know where the canine thing comes in I never saw him or any other security on campus with dogs while I was working there.
They drive cars with yellow lights so I don't know how official they are

There is going to be way more to this story in the near future