Flaky gunsmith

[BigHossCCF]

You know...as a gunsmith myself, this was a really good "read". I'd go even further to say it's a good "wake up call" to how far behind, I myself...have been getting with my workload. Thank you Pripyat for the rant...I needed this...something that only some of my customers will appreciate in the end.

Looks like I have much work to do... (thankfully, your gun was not in my shop!)

 

[Jim K]

Many gunsmiths began as gun hobbyists and simply cannot adjust to the idea that a business is for making money, not chatting all day about guns.

Another problem is that too many gunshop owners have no idea how to run a business. They post on sites like this, asking what they need to be a gunsmith besides a file and an FFL. They have no idea how to get business licenses,, file zoning applications, get capital, do bookkeeping (my wife will do that is a common reply), keep records, or any of the other jobs that involve running a business, not just tinkering with guns.

The first place I worked, one of the other guys asked about time off to go hunting. The boss put him straight: "If you want to go hunting, take all the time you want, because you don't need to come back. As long as you are in the gunsmith business, you don't go hunting - you fix the other guy's gun so HE can go hunting." Pretty hard, but professionals in any business don't take off in the middle of the busiest time of the year; if they do, they either get fired or, if they own the business, go broke.

Jim

 

[Jim Watson]

Then there is the flip side. A good gunsmith will get so much business as to be permanently behind. The guy refinishing my smoke and water damaged guns was slow and is now slower, just from the press of work he feels he can't turn down.

 

[Jim K]

Right, that is also common, but again, a factor in business is knowing what work to turn down, and how to do it with tact and diplomacy.

Also, farming out work is not desirable but I am not totally against it, only in doing it as a general practice. In fact, some specialty work should be farmed out (with the full knowledge of the customer); no general gunsmith can (or should) tackle everything.

Jim

 

[vaeevictiss]

A while back i wanted nothing more than to get into the gun(smithing) business. Ultimately i would love to be a part of something well known and cutting edge doing design or machining.

I hated my job (still do for the most part). But i also have a good friend who is a class 3 dealer and owns his own shop mainly building rifles, ar's, and 1911s.

I asked him how he got into it and he simply said "love of guns". I figured, well <deleted>, me too.

We got to talking more and he said how owning the business really changed guns for him. It was no longer a hobby, but a career. When he got to mess with guns, it was a customers. When he finally gets around to recreational shooting... It's not as fun as it used to be for him.

Add that to all the stress of owning a business, and i decided my current job was good enough.

I have a lot of respect for guys in the business, but i have also decided to teach myself things up to and including machine work to help take a load off him. If there is something i just can't do or have the time for then i take it to him.

I still don't understand why people waste a gunsmiths time to mount a scope. It really isn't hard with a level and some feeler gauges

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

 

[rcmodel]

It was no longer a hobby, but a career. It's not as fun as it used to be for him.

EggZactly!

And that's the part most people who want to become gunsmiths don't quite understand.

When a gunsmith gets the time to go shooting?

It's to test fire someone else's gun he worked on.

And it has to be someone else's gun.
Because he probably had to sell his own gun collection to pay the rent & bills some months.

rc

 

[vaeevictiss]

Yea, i was really surprised to find out just how little he makes.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

 

[Pripyat]

Sadly, I ended up leaving the weapon with the guy. I showed up yesterday and was mesmerized at a M1 he had sitting out and got distracted. I forgot how pissed I was.

Anyway, I asked for my pistol and he said that it was three guns away from the one he was currently working on (I saw his card stack and it was indeed in the first couple). He said that he should have it done by Friday. I know, I should have gotten it but I really don't need a new project. I have multiple spring kits at the house now I haven't had the time to intall. And I really want my gun back...

 

[Fred_G]

Well, hopefully he will get it done for you.

 

[morcey2]

... He said that he should have it done by Friday....

Did he specify _which_ Friday?

 

[Pripyat]

Oh gosh..

He just called and told me my gun was ready. BUT the safety is not fitting in there correctly so I need a new one.

He said it gets in this position sometimes that causes the hammer to only fall to half-cock. Or maybe he said it binds at half cock when you try to cock it sometimes. I really didn't understand what he was saying. Important thing is that it is interfering with the operation of the hammer/sear. Is this legit? It is a rock island armory mil spec 1911A1 and the sear and Beavertail are both supposedly drop-in wilson combat pieces.

Just got a call from him while I was typing. He called RIA and they are sending a new safety free charge under warranty. Again, is this legit? How will thee new one be any different?

 

[Jim K]

"He called RIA and they are sending a new safety free charge under warranty. Again, is this legit? How will thee new one be any different?"

Strong suspicion: He messed up installing the first safety and took off too much metal, so he finagled a new one from RIA and will have a crack at messing that one up. Maybe he will get it right this time.

When you get the gun back, make sure you check it over carefully; if you are not sure how, find someone knowledgeable to help you.

Jim

 

[Pripyat]

But.. This guy is a licensed gunsmith! :banghead:

This makes me so sad. That pistol is, by far, my favorite weapon. Cheap but not a single misfire or FTF in several thousand rounds. My original sear developed a pit in it where the hammer engaged the sear.I stoned it flat but I wanted a more long term solution as the hammer pivot hole was not square with the hammer. All I wanted was a new hammer and sear..

Sob story over.

 

[Fred_G]

Wow. I tried fitting a safety in my 1911, and I messed up the safety. But, I am not a gunsmith. Hope you get your gun back soon, and as posted above, make sure it is checked out.

 

[triggerman770]

But.. This guy is a licensed gunsmith!
means nothing. all you need is a business license and an FFL(the business license takes care of the proper zoning) I have these..but I also apprenticed with a gunsmith for about 5 years. as for the safety Jim K was right. the other possibility is he didn't understand that these must all be fitted,especially of the geometry of the fire control system has been altered via new parts etc.

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

I fit a 1911 safety about two months ago for the first time and it went fine. I adhered to a couple of principles.

1. Measure twice, cut once
2. A little at a time, check fit often

If one has an understanding of how the mechanism works, it is much easier to fit a part properly. It seemed difficult before I started but felt confident after it was finished. Sounds to me like the guy screwed up and doesn't want to own up to it.

 

[Jim K]

.. This guy is a licensed gunsmith!"

To hang out a sign for a beauty parlor in this state, you need a beautician's license and have to pass a pretty rigid examination, proving you know all about cosmetics, hair dyes, hair treatment, manicures, etc., etc.

To hang out a sign for a gunsmith shop, you need an FFL and a hook to hang the sign on. No tests, no examinations, no way for the customer to know if you are a second John Browning, or another Bubba with a big hammer.

Now admittedly, most of us oppose the idea of state licensing and testing of gunsmiths because it could (WOULD) be abused by the state police to eliminate all gunsmiths. Still, the fact is there is no way to know whether the gunsmith is competent or not, experienced or a newbie.

You find out after you give him your prized gun to work on and maybe even after you have paid him.

Jim

 

[4v50 Gary]

What Jim K says. There are no licensing or certifying authority for "gunsmith." Opps, let me correct that. The ATF licenses gunsmiths. However, the ATF does not have any standards for skill level or training of gunsmiths. To the ATF, it's about knowing who is authorized to work on other people's firearms for pay.

 

[Fred_G]

Makes me appreciate my local gunsmith. Crusty old dude, but seems to know his stuff. Don't know his time for major work, but he fixed the barrel link pin on my RIA 1911 while I waited. Charged me a whole $5. Need to go see him about fitting a safety on my Remington 1911.

 

[Jim K]

Another aspect of "gunsmithing as a business" is to not make things look too easy. I am glad Fred got his gun fixed and at a great price, but I hope he doesn't want that kind of service all the time.

I remember one time when a customer brought in a 7" barrel Ruger .22 auto that he had dropped and the bolt would not retract. The boss brought it back to me and I waited until the customer left before I rapped the barrel on the bench. That fixed the problem and it took about one second. But no way was I going to let the customer know what I had done or how easy it was. I didn't know (or care) what the boss charged him, but everyone was happy.

A side issue is that had the customer seen me "abuse" his pistol, he would have been shocked. (Auto body shops won't let customers watch while they adjust car doors, either.)

Jim

 

[Fred_G]

Another aspect of "gunsmithing as a business" is to not make things look too easy. I am glad Fred got his gun fixed and at a great price, but I hope he doesn't want that kind of service all the time.

I remember one time when a customer brought in a 7" barrel Ruger .22 auto that he had dropped and the bolt would not retract. The boss brought it back to me and I waited until the customer left before I rapped the barrel on the bench. That fixed the problem and it took about one second. But no way was I going to let the customer know what I had done or how easy it was. I didn't know (or care) what the boss charged him, but everyone was happy.

A side issue is that had the customer seen me "abuse" his pistol, he would have been shocked. (Auto body shops won't let customers watch while they adjust car doors, either.)

Jim

I got lucky, I fully expected to leave the part with him for a week or so. I guess he was in a good mood, and felt like doing some inexpensive work.

I rarely need a gunsmith, but he is the one I will go to. And have recommended him to friends.

The gs did me a favor, goes a long way in my book.

Plus, he had Nancy Pelocy toilet paper in his shop... Would have had no problem paying $20 or more for the repair.

Price, speed, quality, pick any two of them. I just got lucky.

 

[Pripyat]

He just called and said the pistol was ready. But, he said that he needed to test fire it but he doesn't have any .45acp bullets. He just needs 8 for a clip to ensure the gun is functioning properly. I really wanted to just tell him to forget testing it and that I would just have another smith check it but I figure I will let him finish what he started. I am going to take him some bullets next week and then pick it up the next day.

But wait. There's more!
He said that he had to do quite a bit of fitting to the beaver tail and the new safety from RIA. He said my pistol took most of the day to complete since the new safety did the same thing the original did by interfering with the hammer/grip safety. He asked if I minded paying $20 more since he had to order the new safety (after telling me on the phone he wouldn't charge extra for fitting the new safety from RIA) and he had originally expected all my parts to work together. I told him we would talk about it when I got there.

What. The. Heck.
A 4-6 week 70 dollar trigger job has turned into a 90 dollar 6 month+ headache.

Edit: I just reread my post and realized it sounds too crazy to be the truth. But none of this has been fabricated..

 

[BBBBill]

Well, you might not want to out the guy, but at least post a location (within 50 mile radius) for folks to avoid.

 

[Fred_G]

If he has to test fire it to see if it is fixed, how does he know it is fixed? :banghead:

Again, good luck with this. Hmm, you could charge him $20 for the ammo...

 

[Pripyat]

Asking for extra $ OR asking for a clip of ammo may have not been asking too much. But really? Ammo AND $20? I wanted so badly to remind him off how long he had my weapon in the first place.. But I'm sure he knows..