Flash Rust

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Glen

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Does anybody else ever get that flash rust problem when cleaning with hot soapy water? I was cleaning my 1858 Remington yesterday and it didn't seem like I was taking too long with the frame and barrel but when I went to dry the bore, the patch came out rust color. It don't think it was there from before because I clean it well and store it coated with Break Free CLP or Barricade.

I had this happen once before with a cylinder too. Like, bang, quick rust all of a sudden during cleaning. Makes me think of switching to some of the commercial products.

Any comments?
 
Yes, I saw that Saturday. A SHORT interruption with that eco friendly Clorox cleaner instead of my usual Windex gave flash rust. I dumped it and filled my range box bottle with diluted M-Pro 7. They recommend that for ultrasonic cleaners so it ought to do ok for black.
 
I think the OP said he was using soapy water.
I was going by Mike Venturino who has done a LOT of bp shooting with Windex cleanup... my problem was a cheap substitute.
 
Yes. The first time I tried to clean a black powder firearm (blued finish) I used hot, soapy water. When the hot soapy water hit the surface, fine rust appeared almost instantly.
 
Try using just room temperature water. I never have that issue when I avoid the hot water. It is not really needed -- cool water cleans just fine.
 
I get it on my Uberti '58's if I leave the gun soaking too long. Now I do one part at a time and just swish, brush down the outside with an old disposable paint brush and the bores with nylon bore brush, swish again then remove, rinse with full hot water and dry right away using rags and patches as required to get the excess water off while it's still hot from the rinse. I then immediately oil the part with Ballistol. Or if I know I'll be shooting it within a few weeks again I may use Canola oil if I'm out of or low on Ballistol.

The Canola oil may sound odd but I tested it out a couple of years back (Did a thread about it). For short term use up to around 3 to 4 months it's a superb rust resistor. For longer it can tend to "dry" and get gummy. So I only used it for storage during the active shooting season.

I do each part in this manner one at a time. Since I went this route I haven't had any issues with flash rust. Oh, and I dump the soapy water out and re-fill it for the next gun. If you're using the same water perhaps the fouling residues are building up to form a salty/corrosive mixture. I know that the bucket I use for the soapy wash is pretty darn black by the time I've done the barrel, cylinder and pin for one gun.
 
I get that every time I've cleaned mine w/ hot and soapy water.
Doesn't bug me, just a regular hose down with ballistol after a trip in the oven and it's good to go.
 
+1 Pyro.

IF 'flash rust' bothers you (no reason why it should, but some folks are, well, fastidious, and they have lots of money to spend on cleaning materials) use warm or even cold water. And no soap. It works.

Otherwise, just go ahead and coat the surface with Barricade and put them away. That works, too.
 
I use nothing but cotton patches, pipe cleaners (for the nipples), and room temp. water. Never a problem with flash rust. Of course, everything gets a light coat of Ballistol to keep it pretty.
 
#1 Never swab ther bore at the range after the last shot unless you do a complete clean and oil there. Leave water out of the equation until you are actually cleaning it.

#2 Use room temperature or luke warm water, with just a small dash of liquid soap to whet the solution. Don't overdo the soap.

#3 Use a very hot rinse, and immediately run a dry patch, then an oiled patch through the bore. Do not delay.

Since I adopted these rules, I have had no problems with flash bore rust.
 
The reason for using HOT water is so the metal heats up and dries itself quickly. Flash rusting will not cause pits, but slow rusting (from using cold water) will if you don't get it dried in a reasonable amount of time. ;)
 
I use my air compressor @ 120psi, and a blower nozzle to dry my bp guns. You may THINK your gun is dry.....but hit it with compressed air under the sight dovetail or between barrel and ramrod rib, or around the loading lever on a cap 'n ball revolver......you can see the moisture being blown out.
 
Of course the woodstove thing seems to work better in the winter, when the stove is actually lit. The drying effects are only marginal during the summertime, for some reason.
 
A quick application of CLP Break-Free to all surfaces right after cleaning wipes out any flash rust issues I have had. The Break-Free gets into EVERYWHERE! That stuff spreads and gives long term protection to the revolver! That's how I handle it.
ZVP
 
All have offered good suggestions and I don't want to cast aspersions on any of them or the posters, but these are my experiences both as an individual and in industrial applications.

Hot water does dry quicker and minimizes residual water in crevices, but it also can lead to flash oxidation. Ferrous oxidation is driven by time, temperature and concentration of the reactive elements. You increase the temperature and you can get "rust" almost immediately.

Heat accelerates the evaporation of the residual water that can be in the cracks and crevices of a firearm. But, often if we remove a dovetailed or other semi-permanently affixed part that has undergone cleaning with hot water or had heat used to accelerate the drying we find rust in the areas that are hidden.

Many people exclusively clean with an emulsified oil mixture like moose mild (Ballistol and water) because the oil is attracted to the surfaces, it coats them and prevents oxidation. Others, me included, use water with soap (hot or cold) and then either dunk in moosemilk or liberally spray them down as soon as they are pulled from the water. With a warm part the emulsified suspension is drawn into the cracks and before the oxidation takes place it gives you the protection you require.

Most and the quickest oxidation takes place not while wetted with water, but as the water is evaporating or in a humid environment. The oxygen atoms in the water are bound by the iron as the phase change takes place. You can do a simple experiment for yourself by placing a nail half in and out in a clear plastic cup of water. You will see spot oxidation very quickly above the water and then later dark oxidation under the water, but not immediately. Ultimately you get more aggressive corrosion above the water.

In gunsmith bluing operations (hot black oxide salts) and in large commercial operations the final step of most 5 step processes is submersion in a tank of water displacing oil. Some manufacturers of salts tell you to go directly from the cold water rinse following the hot salts and then to a water displacing oil. But I was taught this wasn't the best process, I was taught to go from the cold water rinse to a boil out tank of water (6 step process) to get all of the salts out of the crevices. How many times have you seen a blued firearm with "salts" coming back out of the crevices over the years?

I later changed the process for black oxide boil out to use a hot emulsified oil (very little oil in the mixture) instead of straight water. This minimized the need to rub down the surfaces to remove the oxide that was "remaining" on the surface. My theory is that the majority of this "residual" oxidation was actually a result of the boil out tank without a protective additive instead of true residual on the surface. With plain water you still got a nice dark finish, but when wiped down you got a brownish surface residual on your rags.

Just like the black oxide process you can get oxidation from hot water, remember heat almost always accelerates a chemical reaction. Personal experience and training has led me to believe the best solution is to displace that water and cover that surface before you go through that phase change of the water evaporating which promotes oxidation. Spray them down with moosemilk, then blow them off with compressed air and then letting them dry in the sun has been a recipe for success.

Regards,
Mako
 
Flash Rust Responses

You guys are great! Whew--I know a lot more about this than I used to. I could not figure this out and it was bugging the heck out of me.

Many thanks!

Glen
 
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