Flash suppressant powders- Dirty?

Palladan44

Palladan44

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Nov 7, 2020
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My first real volume of loading with BE-86 has come recently. Put about 75 rounds through my King Cobra the other day....
The inside of the barrel, and inside of the cases are completely black and caked with about a 2 micron thick "plating" so to speak of a hard, black sooty substance, I can best describe as a carbon-y substance (graphite?), but cracks off easily.
I've never seen a fouling quite like it in many years of shooting, and cleaning guns.
I have to assume it may have something to do with the flash suppressant in the Powder, is is Graphite? No big deal, just an observation and report here.
FWIW BE-86 is an excellent performing powder in 9mm and 38 special loads, the calibers I've tried it in so far. Highly recommend it if you can find it. But, WIN-231 is Much, Much cleaner!!!
 
Palladan44 said:
. @Walkalong has worked with a combo very similar to this I believe, I'd be curious to hear his input.
Click to expand...
I shamelessly stole my midrange .357 Mag load from @tightgroup tiger . I had shot a ton of different powders looking for not only accuracy but case position insensitivity. This load does both, excellent accuracy, and at this power level the best consistency of velocity regardless of powder position.

I already liked the X-Treme 158 Gr SWC, and had plenty, plus had just started playing with BE-86 in 9MM and midrange .357 Mag, so when he posted this, well, I had to try it, and Bingo! We have a winner.

X-Treme 158 Gr SWC @ 1.560 OAL with a light taper crimp, 7.3 Grs of BE-86 (I tried from 7.1 to 7.5), and I used a WSP primer.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/ruger-gp100-357-handloads.767118/#post-9704956

I use 14.5 Grs of 2400 (Some people like 14.0) with the X-Treme 158, a coated 158 SWC, or a 158 Gr XTP, all shoot very well.
 
In my limited testing with some of the newer powders, including BE-86, I found you really had to get into the pressure for them to burn clean. W244 was a surprise... almost staining the cases, for example. BE-86, in my experience, has to have some barrel length and bullet weight to burn better... just my observation.
 
243winxb said:
The sds......

Has Rosin, a surfactant to hold the grain shape of spherical powder.

Diphenylamine is added as a stabilizer.

Urea- Urea can be used to make urea nitrate, a high explosive that is used industrially.

And the 2 basic chemicals for double based powder -
Nitrocellulose
Nitroglycerin
Click to expand...
Yep double base powders normally burn dirty. They're more dirty if there is flash suppression.

Walkalong said:
I shamelessly stole my midrange .357 Mag load from @tightgroup tiger . I had shot a ton of different powders looking for not only accuracy but case position insensitivity. This load does both, excellent accuracy, and at this power level the best consistency of velocity regardless of powder position.

I already liked the X-Treme 158 Gr SWC, and had plenty, plus had just started playing with BE-86 in 9MM and midrange .357 Mag, so when he posted this, well, I had to try it, and Bingo! We have a winner.

X-Treme 158 Gr SWC @ 1.560 OAL with a light taper crimp, 7.3 Grs of BE-86 (I tried from 7.1 to 7.5), and I used a WSP primer.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/ruger-gp100-357-handloads.767118/#post-9704956

I use 14.5 Grs of 2400 (Some people like 14.0) with the X-Treme 158, a coated 158 SWC, or a 158 Gr XTP, all shoot very well.
Click to expand...
I have been dabbling in Alliant 410 which is a single base extruded powder pretty close to 2400, I really like it so far.
 
N555 said:
Yep double base powders normally burn dirty. They're more dirty if there is flash suppression.


I have been dabbling in Alliant 410 which is a single base extruded powder pretty close to 2400, I really like it so far.
Click to expand...
Now we're talking. Interested in your results with 410. Should fit right in with Longshot and lilgun but maybe not so hot... Alliant doest like our dabbling.
 
N555 said:
Yep double base powders normally burn dirty. They're more dirty if there is flash suppression.


I have been dabbling in Alliant 410 which is a single base extruded powder pretty close to 2400, I really like it so far.
Click to expand...

410 Powder is definitely not a single base powder. It is 20% NG extruded flake that was designed for shotshell applications. We do not recommend it for magnum pistol because it was not designed to perform in that pressure range. We would have developed loads for magnum pistol applications if it were appropriate.
Please heed our advice on this.
Be safe and thank you for buying our American made shotshell and pistol powders,
Paul
 
Alliant Reloading said:
410 Powder is definitely not a single base powder. It is 20% NG extruded flake that was designed for shotshell applications. We do not recommend it for magnum pistol because it was not designed to perform in that pressure range. We would have developed loads for magnum pistol applications if it were appropriate.
Please heed our advice on this.
Be safe and thank you for buying our American made shotshell and pistol powders,
Paul
Click to expand...

It burns so clean you had me fooled.
Does it pressure spike like bluedot when used in center fire metallic?
You Alliant 410 makes possibility the most accurate 30carbine loads I have ever seen and it's way cleaner burning than H110 and AA9.
 
N555 said:
It burns so clean you had me fooled.
Does it pressure spike like bluedot when used in center fire metallic?
You Alliant 410 makes possibility the most accurate 30carbine loads I have ever seen and it's way cleaner burning than H110 and AA9.
Click to expand...
If blue dot is an indication of performance that's not a bad thing in my book so far. I'm having a lot of fun loading and testing it in 357, but I'm not velosity chasing either. It should be treated more like h110 with a mag primer and the load. Lower loads are very dirty and chunky.
 
N555 said:
It burns so clean you had me fooled.
Does it pressure spike like bluedot when used in center fire metallic?
You Alliant 410 makes possibility the most accurate 30carbine loads I have ever seen and it's way cleaner burning than H110 and AA9.
Click to expand...
Alliant:
"Do not use 410 in ANYTHING but shotgun. Period"

N555: "....just 3 more quick questions about using 410 powder inappropriately".

Sorry, I had to chuckle about this.
It was nice to hear from @Alliant Reloading
on this thread. Thank you kindly for your input.
 
N555 said:
It burns so clean you had me fooled.
Does it pressure spike like bluedot when used in center fire metallic?
You Alliant 410 makes possibility the most accurate 30carbine loads I have ever seen and it's way cleaner burning than H110 and AA9.
Click to expand...

Have you ever tried Longshot?
 
Palladan44 said:
Have you ever tried Longshot?
Click to expand...

I have used a lot of Longshot (loudshot):)
Great powder.
I am not into clean or dirty powders(as I really do not care) but LS does burn clean and hot. Not soot at all,
Many powders will be "dirty" or leave soot behind if they are loaded at the low range, As for BE86 I can't say as I never used it,
 
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