Florida court decision Open Carry when fishing...

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wickedsprint

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This is an updated to the 2018 Miami Beach case where an open carry advocacy group was detained for 80 minutes after they open carried on the Miami Beach Pier. They argued their detention was a violation of their rights due to the Florida exception which allows open carry while engaged in fishing or travel to / from fishing.

Short version, despite their activity being legal per Florida law, the 80 minute detention which included running their personal information, the guns serial numbers and a check of their fishing licenses was considered reasonable because open carry itself is illegal, and that hunting / fishing is an "affirmative defense" to the crime of open carry. Per the ruling, LEO are not required to consider Affirmative defenses prior to the stop.

City announcement:
https://www.miamibeachfl.gov/news/p...ctivists-openly-carrying-firearms-in-florida/

Official ruling:
https://www.miamibeachfl.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/77-Order-Granting-CMB-Officers-MSJ.pdf
 
I skimmed over the ruling which is way over my pay grade.

Just my no expert opinion, If this group wants to shove open carry in the faces of people and Police, I think it is stupid. Very crowded area and they didn't even make an attempt at fishing,

I guess I could go walk around Walmart(open carry) with a fishing rod and say I was going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition

Not gonna happen!
 
I'm with you. It seems their event somewhat backfired with the bittersweet ruling, saying their activity was ultimately legal...but so was the 80 minutes of everyone's wasted time.
 
That was an interesting read. What I took from this: 1.) make sure the people you're notifying of your event actually ACKNOWLEDGE the notification. 2.) If you're using an affirmative defense, ACTUALLY DO what you claim to be doing, and 3.) when the park ranger tells you, "put your guns away and this is what you need to do to be legal next time," it's probably a good idea to do it!
 
I never agreed with their tactics, either. It's counterproductive, especially in urban "blue" locales. There are plenty of areas (the majority, probably) in Florida in which OC while fishing, or even convincingly posing as fishing, would not have garnered such a harsh response.
 
IMO, the elephant in the room, here, is that this is the state of Florida. F L O R I D A . As in "when you exit your house, you are entering the food chain".
I DNK what these guys had to contend with, in Miami, but when I go fishing, here, there's alligators, bears, wild boar, panthers, and venomous snakes, before you have to consider politicians, vehicle salesmen, and oh, yeah, criminals. It's very fair to say that here, you fish at your own risk. In all fairness, however, we don't go into urban areas to fish, either.
OTOH, I have a pond on my property, so if there's a fishing pole in the back of the truck, who's to argue I'm not going to, or returning from, fishing, at any given time?
Not that I've run into a lot of people who object to our being armed, on a fishing trip, out here, in the sticks.
 
I find it odd that the crux of the defense was the concept of an "affirmative defense", when the law spells out those specific conditions under which possession of a firearm is legal. As a contrasting example, possession of a handcuff key is unlawful in Florida, but the statute specifically states that a case of an "affirmative defense" to such a charge can be made if a person possessing a handcuff key immediately discloses such to any LEO once detained or arrested.

It seems to me that the statutes prohibit (unlicensed) possession of a firearm, but provides exceptions to the prohibition, and the statutes prohibit possession of a handcuff key with no exceptions, but provides a "defense" instead. So, in the former, when possessing under one of the exceptions, there would be no law broken, yet, in the latter, the law is indeed broken, but the crime is defensible if immediately disclosed.
 
MedWheeler said:
I find it odd that the crux of the defense was the concept of an "affirmative defense", when the law spells out those specific conditions under which possession of a firearm is legal. As a contrasting example, possession of a handcuff key is unlawful in Florida, but the statute specifically states that a case of an "affirmative defense" to such a charge can be made if a person possessing a handcuff key immediately discloses such to any LEO once detained or arrested.

It seems to me that the statutes prohibit (unlicensed) possession of a firearm, but provides exceptions to the prohibition, and the statutes prohibit possession of a handcuff key with no exceptions, but provides a "defense" instead. So, in the former, when possessing under one of the exceptions, there would be no law broken, yet, in the latter, the law is indeed broken, but the crime is defensible if immediately disclosed.
Click to expand...

I was a little surprised that the 80 minutes to verify they were legally fishing was considered reasonable.
 
Had to laugh at this... I'm pretty much a professional fisherman (full time fishing guide down here in paradise, south Florida since 1996) - and I'd never consider having a sidearm with me when on the water... To put it mildly I fish day or night, whenever I have customers, from the Everglades in daylight to downtown Miami after sundown and being around saltwater with a gun isn't something I'd consider unless it was issued to me and I didn't care about corrosion issues....

Then again, I doubt whoever this was had any intention of fishing at all... Whenever I think about these kinds of "activists" I'm glad to be able to spend my time in the backcountry of the 'glades where there's very few people - and lots of fish and other critters. I had enough of life on the street as a cop years ago.
 
Well here in the area of TX I live I always have firearms with me when fishing. Have had people robbed and shot here while enjoying casting.
 
Florida Carry, as a whole, is a respectable group.

That doesn't mean that every tactic employed by every member is productive. Even "respectable groups" can make errors in judgment or actions. There is no evidence that pretending to fish while slathered in what the public sees as terrorist equipment (I've seen some of these "events" in which AR-type rifles slung over shoulders were common) in a politically-hostile urban environment contributes to the public's acceptance that "carrying a gun while enjoying the outdoors is normal."

There are ways to go easy at first. Start at an edge-of-town lake or stream with a Ruger Single-Six or something on a hip at first, and actually fish. Have like-minded folks around. There's a difference between being perceived as civil outdoorsmen and as yahoos. Work up from there, by moving deeper into town, swapping the revolvers for pistols, etc. Look like you're neither hiding nor flaunting them, like you don't even think about having a gun on, and don't care if anyone else does, as if it really is "normal."

There is nowhere in the US that some of the behavior I've seen at these "demonstrations" is normal while fishing.
 
Rule3 writes:

I guess I could go walk around Walmart(open carry) with a fishing rod and say I was going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition
Click to expand...

Remember that it has to be while engaged in the activity, or while going to or from the activity. Stopping at Wal-Mart will break "going to or returning from" the activity. If you arrive at Wal-Mart with your sidearm concealed, I suppose you could then expose it as you leave to head to your fishing spot, since you would then be "traveling to" the activity (like you, I'm not gonna be the test subject for that last part!)
 
MedWheeler said:
Rule3 writes:



Remember that it has to be while engaged in the activity, or while going to or from the activity. Stopping at Wal-Mart will break "going to or returning from" the activity. If you arrive at Wal-Mart with your sidearm concealed, I suppose you could then expose it as you leave to head to your fishing spot, since you would then be "traveling to" the activity (like you, I'm not gonna be the test subject for that last part!)
Click to expand...

It was sarcasm. If I park my trailered boat in the parking lot and go in to buy GAS, BEER ICE and BAIT I am going fishing;)
 
Rule3 writes:

It was sarcasm. If I park my trailered boat in the parking lot and go in to buy GAS, BEER ICE and BAIT I am going fishing.
Click to expand...


Yes, you are, as soon as you walk back outside with said gas, beer, ice, and bait. ;)

I got the sarcasm.

Someone, maybe even a LEO, could argue, though, that you were "going to Wal-Mart" when you left home, and not "going fishing" quite yet, despite the obvious intent to do just that. Like you implied about yourself, I'm not gonna be the test subject.

Go to Bass Pro instead, and toss your line in their big tank. :D
 
Frank Ettin said:
You might think so. But what matters is whether a judge applying Florida law would think so.
Click to expand...

One of those "laws" that is subject to interpretation.

Lets change the scenario.
I live near one of the most popular beaches in Florida. Many tourists, residents, families kids etc. I used to fish there a lot.
So I can go fishing there, wade out to the sand bar, have all my fishing gear, bait etc etc. If I open carry a firearm I can guarantee that someone will call the Police, Sheriff, FWC whatever. GADS he has a gun!!
As with the case above, it would not be worth it .

Even though it is legal, I am sure it would be a BIG deal and probably be arrested!

The law seems to have been written for someone fishing out in the boonies with no other people around. Walking down a dirt road with a cane pole.

(h) A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;
 
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