For $500 or so which semi-auto would you buy?
- Thread starter chaim
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ReadyontheRight
Member
I really don't want to be a "me too" either.........but "me too".
www.odcmp.com
You can join some of the clubs via the internet for $20 or so. Your local high power club can probably find you a gun and plenty of help to do the match requirement. The $425 Danish Garands with the VAR barrels are starting to go on backorder, so they may be running out. You can always buy something that's a new production. When the CMP Garands are gone, the $400-$500 Garand is gone.
www.odcmp.com
You can join some of the clubs via the internet for $20 or so. Your local high power club can probably find you a gun and plenty of help to do the match requirement. The $425 Danish Garands with the VAR barrels are starting to go on backorder, so they may be running out. You can always buy something that's a new production. When the CMP Garands are gone, the $400-$500 Garand is gone.
enichols
Member
For $500, I'd probably opt for a really, really, really good condition SKS, lots of stripper clips, and tons of ammo. Use leftover cash for range fees for the year and more ammo.
My $.02
-Nic
My $.02
-Nic
Boy, have I been down this road a few times.
I've had a SKS, Mini14 stainless, MAK, Bushy, then a SAR AK.
I had two M1 carbines for evaluation a couple of weeks ago.
I really hate to pay $400 for a gun that is 60 years old, and looks it.
They were a lot of fun to shoot, and very accurate.
If I could have found a new IMI in that price range, I would have bought it.
I also looked at the KelTec Sub2000, but it wasn't my cup of tea.
I finally traded my SAR1 AK for a used, blue Mini14, in very good condition, with two 30rd PMI mags.
I like the "M1 Carbine" looks of the Mini.
A local gunsmith will do a trigger job for $35.
I ordered a glass bed kit from Brownell's for $25.
I don't plan on shooting it with a scope, and yes, it is a blast to shoot.
At 25 yards, I got <1" groups with Wolf or Winchester.
At 100 yards, the groups were closer to 6".
(Open sights, off of sandbags.)
And, in all fairness to the gun, I could barely see the 2" target dot at 100yds.
After the bedding and trigger job, I think the gun will be acceptable for <100 yard shooting.
As you said, the gun is more accurate than me.
I like the gun, and I like Ruger products in general.
30rd mags can be found for around $30 each, and I don't feel like I will need more than 3 or 4.
If you are willing to "tweak" on your mags, you can get 30rd mags for $10 -12.
Remember, the hunt is half the fun.
I've had a SKS, Mini14 stainless, MAK, Bushy, then a SAR AK.
I had two M1 carbines for evaluation a couple of weeks ago.
I really hate to pay $400 for a gun that is 60 years old, and looks it.
They were a lot of fun to shoot, and very accurate.If I could have found a new IMI in that price range, I would have bought it.
I also looked at the KelTec Sub2000, but it wasn't my cup of tea.
I finally traded my SAR1 AK for a used, blue Mini14, in very good condition, with two 30rd PMI mags.
I like the "M1 Carbine" looks of the Mini.
A local gunsmith will do a trigger job for $35.
I ordered a glass bed kit from Brownell's for $25.
I don't plan on shooting it with a scope, and yes, it is a blast to shoot.
At 25 yards, I got <1" groups with Wolf or Winchester.
At 100 yards, the groups were closer to 6".
(Open sights, off of sandbags.)
And, in all fairness to the gun, I could barely see the 2" target dot at 100yds.
After the bedding and trigger job, I think the gun will be acceptable for <100 yard shooting.
As you said, the gun is more accurate than me.
I like the gun, and I like Ruger products in general.
30rd mags can be found for around $30 each, and I don't feel like I will need more than 3 or 4.
If you are willing to "tweak" on your mags, you can get 30rd mags for $10 -12.
Remember, the hunt is half the fun.
Hand_Rifle_Guy
Member
Just for yucks, and if you haven't looked yet...
Here's a rundown on the non-military options.
Remington 7400's are usually pretty cheap, and ten-round mags are available. These rifles can be had in a variety of calibers, they're non-phobic, and they're typically under $300 used. Not a military gun, which shows in it's design, but they work. This is probably the cheapest one you could get, ($400-ish new.) except for the Rem. M-8/81.
That being said, I would say get a FAL sporter. Cheapest full-power battle rifle available. Also look at the STG-58. Common as mud, and lots of mags. I'd own one, but their ergonomics drive me nuts, just like all the pistol-grip guns do.
Garand: Yes. Definitely.
49/56's are a good idea too. (I like mine a lot. Cheapest battle rifle I could get at $350.) Funny looking, though. Got that Gallic thing going, I guess, but a good rifle all the same. 10-round mags are a limiter, but they switch fast. Mags are cheap, too.
SVT-40's are big, (4' plus OAL.) cantankerous, heavy, kick hard, are very loud, are downright impossible to get parts for, and mags run about $75. IF you can find 'em. Cheap, powerful ammo, though. Reliable, but with a fragile reputation from the trenches. No after-market stock options to improve their lot. Getting expensive and harder to find, these days. Almost impossible to scope.
Underdog personal favorite, Remington Model 8 or 81 Woodsmaster, despite a five round fixed mag and funky caliber choices. See above link.
(Image courtesy of Remington.)
M-1 Carbine's, AR's, and Mini's all qualify as plinkers, to me. They're all very good guns, but I want rifles to be in serious calibers. Mini-30's and AR's in 7.62 x 39 are a step up from this, but you have an SKS, so you know about this caliber.
Here's a rundown on the non-military options.
Remington 7400's are usually pretty cheap, and ten-round mags are available. These rifles can be had in a variety of calibers, they're non-phobic, and they're typically under $300 used. Not a military gun, which shows in it's design, but they work. This is probably the cheapest one you could get, ($400-ish new.) except for the Rem. M-8/81.
That being said, I would say get a FAL sporter. Cheapest full-power battle rifle available. Also look at the STG-58. Common as mud, and lots of mags. I'd own one, but their ergonomics drive me nuts, just like all the pistol-grip guns do.
Garand: Yes. Definitely.
49/56's are a good idea too. (I like mine a lot. Cheapest battle rifle I could get at $350.) Funny looking, though. Got that Gallic thing going, I guess, but a good rifle all the same. 10-round mags are a limiter, but they switch fast. Mags are cheap, too.
SVT-40's are big, (4' plus OAL.) cantankerous, heavy, kick hard, are very loud, are downright impossible to get parts for, and mags run about $75. IF you can find 'em. Cheap, powerful ammo, though. Reliable, but with a fragile reputation from the trenches. No after-market stock options to improve their lot. Getting expensive and harder to find, these days. Almost impossible to scope.
Underdog personal favorite, Remington Model 8 or 81 Woodsmaster, despite a five round fixed mag and funky caliber choices. See above link.
(Image courtesy of Remington.)
M-1 Carbine's, AR's, and Mini's all qualify as plinkers, to me. They're all very good guns, but I want rifles to be in serious calibers. Mini-30's and AR's in 7.62 x 39 are a step up from this, but you have an SKS, so you know about this caliber.
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chaim
Member
Nah, I already have an SKS, though one in really, really, really bad condition. If I already had one or two of the other rifle catagories that I want filled then I'd strongly consider one of the $200 Yugo SKSs that are out there (for $200 one local dealer still has some that are still in unissued condition). Maybe putting some $ into fixing mine up (it is very beat up and inaccurate) might not be a bad idea if I can get it up to speed for about half the cost of a Yugo (plus then going for one of my other options used).
Gerand
Maybe. I've also "always" (since I started seriously studying WWII at about 11yo anyway) wanted one. What are all the steps required after I join a club (esp. if I do one of the web based ones as someone suggested) to get one of the CMP or DCM or whatever they are called now guns? The ammo would be a bit expensive for a grad student though, but I guess I could buy a few cases this summer and have enough for about 2 years (or use this as my excuse to finally start reloading).
Mini
Hmm. I really would like one, I really do think they are "neat" (basically a military type gun that doesn't look it). There also does seem to be a lot of stuff out there to customize them and "accurize" them. They seem hit or miss (no pun intended
) accuracy wise. But if I got a bad one it looks like I could probably get it accurized for less than the cost of an AR, and I could probably have the cost spread out by having a little done at a time. This is still high on the list.AR
I still really want one, I've been hooked since Basic Training. However, the good ones are more than I want to spend. Getting the parts a piece at a time and having someone put it together for me would be ok except I am too impatient. Buying all the parts and putting it together myself- getting good parts wouldn't be much less than an AR 180 (a bit more than I want to spend) and I'd be afraid of messing it up and spending the $ I'd save on the gunsmith to fix what I messed up (thus if I get good Bushmaster or similar parts after paying the smith I'd probably be at the same cost if I just bought the Bushy to begin with).
A new consideration though, MD does now have an "assult rifle" ban in the legislature. I'll need to see if it will "grandfather" existing owners or if one will need to turn them in should it pass. If it looks like it will pass and current owners are exempted I'll have to hurry up and do the Bushy. If it looks like it will pass and current owners won't be exempted than I guess I won't be looking for an AR or FAL (don't want to buy an expensive gun and then months later have to turn it in)
M1 Carbine
Arrggh. Too many I really want and too little money (yet another reason to wait on the expensive AR). This probably would be behind the others, being "just" a "plinker" like the Mini but w/ much more expensive ammo than .223, except for the fact that it could be used at indoor pistol ranges (I don't get to outdoor rifle ranges as often as I'd like- too cold in the winter, many summer days in MD are outright oppressively hot and humid and the hours most are open don't really work with my schedule very well).
It is another gun I'd really like to have but some of the others would probably be just a tad ahead of it for various reasons (for some more power, most longer range and better accuracy, others cheaper ammo) but this would probably be the most used due to the fact that it could be used at pistol ranges. If not for that, it would probably be after one (though not all) of my other choices were filled. Also, in its favor, the one I got to shoot was a ton of fun.
Rem 7400
That is a gun that has interested me for a while. As I said, it is a wild card (since I've been interested for a while) but since I'm in a military rifle mood it isn't as high on the list as the others and as with the Garand the ammo isn't exactly cheap (though I think it is available in .308 so cheaper surplus ammo is still out there). It is another "neat" gun in my way of thinking though, and that goes a long way. Is there an aftermarket source for "peep" sights for it? How good are the "high-cap" 10 round mags?
Ok guys, I'm still no where near knowing which way to go. The Garand is now on my list (high on my list). The Mini is high. The 7400 is higher than when I started. The M1 Carbine is a little lower. The ARs (15 and 180) are still on the list, but I'm leaning against the Century and even the 180 is more than I wish to spend right now so barring legislative action that hurries that one up I probably won't go that way (unless I see a great used deal on the 15 or great deal new on the 180). However, all are still very much being considered and I can be nudged any of these directions.
Keep up the input please. Thanks for what you've given so far.
chaim:
Check out the CMP web site for requirements to purchase M1. Veterans are not required to shoot in matches to purchase a rifle IIRC. I am pretty sure a copy of your DD 214 is all you need to apply.
http://www.odcmp.com/
When I ordered my DCM rifle back in the early 80's the price was only $90.00 and no exceptions made for military service. Prices have continued to increase over the years and I suspect will really take a jump if and when CMP supply dries up. One might consider an M1 purchase an investment.
Regards,
hps
Check out the CMP web site for requirements to purchase M1. Veterans are not required to shoot in matches to purchase a rifle IIRC. I am pretty sure a copy of your DD 214 is all you need to apply.
http://www.odcmp.com/
When I ordered my DCM rifle back in the early 80's the price was only $90.00 and no exceptions made for military service. Prices have continued to increase over the years and I suspect will really take a jump if and when CMP supply dries up. One might consider an M1 purchase an investment.
Regards,
hps
ReadyontheRight
Member
To qualify to get a Garand from the CMP, you could join an affiliated club in your state - clubs are posted at www.odcmp.com -- or for $25 you could join the Garand Collectors Association:
http://www.garandcollector.org/gca_join.htm
Through www.odcmp.com - You need a copy of your affiliated club card, a copy of proof of citizenship, a copy of your card from a high power match OR proof of military service, some paperwork, some money and some patience. A few weeks later, a Garand is delivered right to your door.
P.S. When the delivery guy asks "what's in the long heavy box?", tell him it's none of his business.
http://www.garandcollector.org/gca_join.htm
Through www.odcmp.com - You need a copy of your affiliated club card, a copy of proof of citizenship, a copy of your card from a high power match OR proof of military service, some paperwork, some money and some patience. A few weeks later, a Garand is delivered right to your door.
P.S. When the delivery guy asks "what's in the long heavy box?", tell him it's none of his business.
H
Handy
Guest
Chaim,
I really think the "quality of a Bushmaster" is a myth. Any AR built with a good receiver and NEW mil-quality parts is going to be as good as an $800 Bushmaster.
Places like Model 1 Sales, M&A parts and Hesse have just ruined the basic rifle's reputation by selling refinished de-milled parts.
The only "assembly" you do with a kit is the lower. It takes an hour. The upper and bolt are assembled, head spaced and perfect.
I really think it's insane to pay hundreds extra for brand name and an extra hour of unskilled labor.
As to the Ar-180, it's neat, but for $500 you are getting less gun and no options. If you're not going to something neat and old timey (M1 or M1), a $500 AR15 is by far the best value. The prices are only this low because of all the military contracts. The AR15 would be a $1200 rifle if built solely for the civilian market.
If you want specific advice on where to buy and how to build, feel free to email me. That was the best $500 I could have spent on a rifle.
I really think the "quality of a Bushmaster" is a myth. Any AR built with a good receiver and NEW mil-quality parts is going to be as good as an $800 Bushmaster.
Places like Model 1 Sales, M&A parts and Hesse have just ruined the basic rifle's reputation by selling refinished de-milled parts.
The only "assembly" you do with a kit is the lower. It takes an hour. The upper and bolt are assembled, head spaced and perfect.
I really think it's insane to pay hundreds extra for brand name and an extra hour of unskilled labor.
As to the Ar-180, it's neat, but for $500 you are getting less gun and no options. If you're not going to something neat and old timey (M1 or M1), a $500 AR15 is by far the best value. The prices are only this low because of all the military contracts. The AR15 would be a $1200 rifle if built solely for the civilian market.
If you want specific advice on where to buy and how to build, feel free to email me. That was the best $500 I could have spent on a rifle.
chaim
Member
OK, for now the FAL and ARs are pretty much out of the running.
See this thread for why: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12463
It appears that MD is now considering an "assult rifle" ban. Now one might think that would make me hurry up and get the AR (I would have thought so too) except the bill as it stands will only grandfather current AR owners if they register their ARs by July 31 (which is coming very soon and the bill hasn't even passed, let alone the regs written by the state police to determine how to handle registration, so it seems unlikely that it would be possible to be registered in time even if I was willing to register). I have a major problem with registering a firearm (even while I am painfully aware that the current system can be used pretty easily as registration if the gov't so chooses- some may remember the call I got from the FBI during the DC "sniper" situation). While there is defacto registration already, the harrassment directed at DC area gun owners (including a threatening call to me) actually has me more determined than ever not to submit to registration.
I'll need to wait and see how that bill goes. If it becomes law I won't be buying anything that matches the definition of an "assult rifle" until I leave MD. I am writing my legislators as well. Of course, I'll hopefully have whatever I get in this catagory (the fun rifle) before the bill is passed or defeated so I guess that means that the AR will have to wait a little while.
See this thread for why: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12463
It appears that MD is now considering an "assult rifle" ban. Now one might think that would make me hurry up and get the AR (I would have thought so too) except the bill as it stands will only grandfather current AR owners if they register their ARs by July 31 (which is coming very soon and the bill hasn't even passed, let alone the regs written by the state police to determine how to handle registration, so it seems unlikely that it would be possible to be registered in time even if I was willing to register). I have a major problem with registering a firearm (even while I am painfully aware that the current system can be used pretty easily as registration if the gov't so chooses- some may remember the call I got from the FBI during the DC "sniper" situation). While there is defacto registration already, the harrassment directed at DC area gun owners (including a threatening call to me) actually has me more determined than ever not to submit to registration.
I'll need to wait and see how that bill goes. If it becomes law I won't be buying anything that matches the definition of an "assult rifle" until I leave MD. I am writing my legislators as well. Of course, I'll hopefully have whatever I get in this catagory (the fun rifle) before the bill is passed or defeated so I guess that means that the AR will have to wait a little while.
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