For Love of the Semi-Auto

[Titan6]

I know how most of you guys who hang out in the shotgun forum love your pump guns. But honestly on days like today I just don't see it.

I brought out the Remington 11/87 HD shot gun for a little practice today. It has been a couple of weeks and the gun needed some exercise.

I set 14 clays out at ranges of 20-50 yards and loaded up the magazine with slugs. In less than seven seconds I fired seven slugs hit seven clays. Reload, repeat. No jams, no issues, slug straight to target.

I have heard of people who can do this with a pump but I never have been able to. I simply can't cycle the round and aim as fast with the pump. But I sure have an affection with the semi-auto.

Is there some kind of trick to it with a pump? What am I missing? Why would one prefer a pump to SA for HD? Mine has always been 100% reliable as well.

 

[brentn]

I wouldn't be surpised if 'speed pump' on a winchester 1300 is how they do it. I'm sure there are similar technologies on other types of shotguns?

 

[zinj]

I wouldn't be surpised if 'speed pump' on a winchester 1300 is how they do it. I'm sure there are similar technologies on other types of shotguns?

"Speed-Pump" is just Winchester marketing. They are referring to the fact that the gun unlocks after the trigger is pulled (like all pumps do).

Anyway, practice is the key to speed with a pump. An older gun without a disconnector doesn't hurt either...

That said, my favorite shotgun is still an Auto-5.

 

[waterhouse]

I own both types.

I've never tried them side by side, but I know that usually I'm done pumping before I get a new sight picture. Granted all of my pump guns are pretty slick, as most of them are older than I am.

I might be faster getting a new sight picture with an auto. It has never been an issue hunting though. I guess in 3 gun competition the autos do seem to rule the day, so there must be something to it.

To me it doesn't seem to matter, because whether the gun is doing the work or I am doing the work, I still have to find the next target, and that takes me longer than the new shell being put in place, no matter how it is being done.

For HD, I've been shooting pump guns for over 20 years and I'm more comfortable with them. But as long as it works 100%, and you are comfortable with it, I say use it.

 

[30-06 lover]

I really like my 11/87, and like you have not had any malfunctions with mine, but for home defense I am saving for a Mossy 500. Pumps have more afermarket for home defense. I tried to sweep a house with my 11/87 with 26" barrel and found that it was nearly impossible to safely round corners and I that if I was able to round corners safely, my barrel would be exposed to anyone that my be there long before I could see around the corner. Practice is what it is all about with a pump. Be safe.
-Mike

 

[Titan6]

I think 26'' is too long and clumsy for a HD barrel. Mine is 19'' and feels about right as it extends just pass the magazine extension.

The target acquisition is the hardest part. But without having to pump it is much faster for me with a SA.

 

[MCgunner]

Yeah, I'm really tired of getting kicked with 3" steel shot out of my Mossberg 500. I'm an avid duck hunter, have been for 40 years. Guys on the Duck Hunting Chat site say that the new Winchester hyper velocity 2 3/4" 1550 fps Number 3 stuff is as good as any ordinary 3" stuff at duck hunting late season decoy shy birds, so I bought 4 boxes of that stuff to pattern and start the season out with next season. I owned, have owned a Winchester 1400 which is REALLY soft on the shoulder. It's amazingly soft recoiling with magnum steel 2 3/4" loads, so I'm going to use that from here on except if hunting out on the bay. sm turned me on to waxing the gun up with paste wax, the kind you use on a wood floor, for protection from the brackish water. I don't do much bay hunting anymore, mostly a local marsh run by Texas Parks and Wildlife that is good hunting, better than most I've done around here, and no boats are involved to have to mess with. I used the Winchester a couple of hunts last season after sm talked me into it, but the hunting was slow and the birds were way shy of the deeks and I took a lot of out of range shots I shouldn't have, so the test was flawed, but if the birds were inside 40 yards, they were just as dead as a 3" out of that Mossberg and when I got home, my shoulder and face felt normal, LOL! I've been wanting a Remington Spartan 453, but I love that Winchester, drop at comb is perfect, length of pull is perfect, it fits me better than any off the shelf shotgun I've ever tried and that has made it a fine dove gun over the years. Fit counts for a lot and if the new ammo works, I ain't even gonna bother with a new gun, like this Winchester that much. Been shooting dove (lots and lots of rounds in the field) with it for nearly 20 years now and it's never failed me, never had to put a part in it, rugged gun. Of course, all those rounds were light dove loads, mostly Winchester hi speed or double A, not heavy magnums, but it feeds heavy magnums just as well and ejects 'em with more vigor.

They don't make tacticool versions of the Winchester 1400, but that's not my interest. I have a 20 inch coach gun in the bed room, two barrels will do the job and I have a Koplin ammo thing on the stock just in case I need more. I don't feel under-gunned there. That gun was bought for dove hunting duties, but its length is so handy (no action, even shorter than an 18" pump) and light in 20 gauge, it's a decent defense shotgun loaded with #3 buck and recoil is mild. But, I'll still use the Winchester for doves if I ain't gettin' there on the motorcycle. I can take that coach gun down and stow it in my saddle bags. It has interchangable chokes and throws an impressive pattern at 40 yards with Winchester AA number 7.5. This will be my first season to use it, just got it last winter. But, it doesn't fit me like that old Winny and the gas gun in 12 gauge isn't any worse on the shoulder than that 20 gauge light weight side-by-side.

 

[Smitty in CT]

On July 19, 2000, Tom Knapp, with his Benelli Nova pump in one hand, threw eight clay targets in the air with his other hand and broke every one of them with individual shots in an amazing 1.87 seconds

http://www.benelliusa.com/player.tpl?t=Tom Knapp World Record 2&v=WorldRecord2.flv

 

[Titan6]

Tom Knapp I am not, nor will I ever be. I have seen such things on TV but I guess I will just have to accept my limitations and use what works for me.

 

[MCgunner]

Tom Knapp I am not, nor will I ever be.

Yeah, no kiddin', me too, LOL. But, you know, as good as that guy is, I watch his bird hunting show all the time on Outdoor Channel, like that one a lot, and he missed birds, too, just like me. However, his shooting percentages sure seems better even on his bad days, ROFL! Takes a lot of rounds to get that good.

I don't really care about fast shooting, personally, I just get tired of my shoulder gettin' beat up and gas guns are fabulous for reducing recoil, at least my Winchester is.

 

[PJR]

Why would one prefer a pump to SA for HD?

Simplicity, ability to use with a wider range of shells, less maintenance required are all reasons in favour of a pump.

The semi-auto hwoever requires less practice to use effectively and is an equally sound choice IMO provided some attention is paid to maintenance and ammo selection.

I have had semi-autos jam and parts break on them. It's never happened with a pump. What has happened with a pump is the occasional "operator error."

I'd feel comfortable using either for HD.