For those of you that carry and like to listen to music--

[harrygunner]

It doesn't matter why one is unaware of what's going on around them. It's still "Condition White".

 

[jawman]

Post #10 by Sam1911. Nothing more need be said.

 

[Sam1911]

There's false dilemmas of two extremes here, from the assumptions that the choice is between 360 turns and obliviousness to everything behind you to the choice between not using an audio device and completely removing one of your senses.

Ok. If you say this is a false dilemma of extremes, I guess it must be. However, my observations of people tell me that this is not so. The things I've read and observed about the inability of the human brain to truly multi-task tell me this is not so (LINK). I believe that you can really be "present" either in the place and moment of the here-and-now, or you can be attending the event, or concert, or discussion(podcast) going on inside your head, thanks to your earbuds or earphones, but not both. The tendency to insert a focus of attention into your consciousness WILL drive out competing inputs -- like footsteps approaching, the speech and shouted warnings of others, car horns honking, dogs barking, and all sorts of very important warning signals.

And, if that brain focus issue wasn't enough on its own, you are by necessity physically plugging or covering your ears! Unless you're using some sort of "game ear" amplifying headphones (and we're not, given the subject at hand) then you ARE reducing or eliminating inputs simply by the physical presence of the object in/over your ears!

So I don't see how this can be a false dichotomy of extremes.

People can use them as sensory deprivation devices(which this thread has discussed). Individuals should make their own judgements of their usage pertaining to the applicability of the statements.

And that's a fine thing to say. But I've watched people using these devices and used them myself many times. I've yet to find anyone who does so in such a moderated, toned-down way as to not hider to a very significant degree the inputs they're receiving from the world around them.

It's kind of like saying that most people use their cars to cruise at 10 mph. Certainly some have and do. But that's a very, very unusual usage, and it is a bad idea to suggest any course of action that is based on the presumption that cars are used that way.

 

[Magoo]

This thread reminded me of an incident from many years ago when I was working in Yellowstone N.P.. A fella was hiking solo with his earbuds in. His lack of situational awareness led him to meet a grizzly sow with cubs. Last I heard he did survive the mauling.

While this story is not about human predators, in reading the dialogue in here I think it dovetails nicely and illustrates some of the same points. He was truly in an environment where he was potential prey and completely forfeited one of his primary defenses. He made other mistakes as well, but the earbud mindset started him out at a real disadvantage.

 

[Kleanbore]

The link in hso's post #50 is worthy of reflection. Around six years ago, a young, fit attorney I know who was talking on a cell-phone when he walked past a parking garage exit, hit by an automobile, run over, and very seriously injured. Two years ago, it appeared to me and to the driver of a red pickup truck that a woman who was texting while walking would almost certainly walk into the path of the truck at an intersection. She didn't. Instead, she stumbled and fell on her face, hard.

And there remains the predator angle. Yesterday, I was forced to park in a remote area of a lot for a medical building. A woman driving with a cell-phone to hereear pulled in in front of me and. oblivious to here surroundings, remained talking while she removed her child from a car seat, picked up her purse, and took the child toward the building.

Anything that a violent criminal actor might have wanted--her purse, her child, the mother, the car, or any combination thereof--was there for the taking. No, it didn't happen in a "high crime area". But it did occur within walking distance of a major Interstate highway, on which drug traffickers and fugitives from many miles away are routinely apprehended.

I always caution friends, male and female alike, to avoid impairing their senses and sending signals of vulnerability by using electronic devices in the out of doors.

That's step one. It is also important to select parking spots wisely, to not linger, to observe those around one, to avoid being fixated on anything.

Absent good situational awareness, a firearm will likely provide little safety.

Some may characterize that as "living in fear". I call it prudence.

 

[precisionrifle14]

I'm a huge believer in being aware of your surroundings and adapting. When I'm jogging, I am in direct sight of at least 3-4 people (that I know very well) at any given time. I planned my route to avoid ANY area that would be tactically advantageous to a threat, and I made sure to give myself the advantage. I made sure that I have multiple escape routes and cover close by at any given time. I almost never carry on my jogs, but I listen to music.

I also think your eyes would be far more likely to i.d. a threat than your ears. Going back to the predator/prey analogy, does a lion make lots of noise when it stalks a gazelle? Nope, they move as quietly as possible and make almost no sound at all, however, the gazelle can still SEE them. The lion tries to blend in with the grass, but their movement is still visible, and it is the only indicator of their presence.
Lion=threat
Gazelle=people
Grass=the crowd
I feel that your eyes are about 20 times more likely to i.d. the threat than your ears. For this reason, I listen to music with one earbud in, so that I can carry conversations, talk, hear instructions, etc. I found a balance of the volume where I can hear the outside world and my music. I just focus on one or the other, and my other ear is concentrated solely on the world.

 

[Owen Sparks]

I feel that your eyes are about 20 times more likely to i.d. the threat than your ears. For this reason, I listen to music with one earbud in, so that I can carry conversations

Never trust your "feelings" Trust your senses. Having something that makes noise in one ear makes you 50% functionally def.

 

[MyGreenGuns]

I have an extensive music collection (15k+ songs). I listen to music constantly.

I've always kept my right ear uncovered and the volume low when in public. I've never walked into a pole or stepped in front of a car, I maintain good situational awareness. I totally disagree with those of you who believe listening to music puts everyone in condition white.

I have seen so many people put on their music and tune out the world and could never understand how they could do that. I see it most often with cell phones and bluetooth.

I do have experiences with being profiled by predators who assume I am not paying attention. I believe I have stopped potential attacks by physically turning and watching someone who slipped in behind me while I was "bebopping" down the street.

My attention to the world gave me confidence when I started to carry a handgun. Everything I had read suggested that was your #1 weapon is situational awareness. I learned from THR about the color scale and I have apprently been living in condition yellow most my life.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by MyGreenGuns: I listen to music constantly.

I like music, but if I felt the need to listen to it constantly, I would see about how to change that.

Here's a reason that has not been mentioned. Relevant excerpt:

Try to restrict the time spent each day listening to music through earphones, particularly earbuds. When not on the train, or in circumstances that make it impossible to listen to music any other way, play your music through speakers. If you must use earphones, take at least a five-minute rest each hour. This will provide the ears with valuable recovery time and could help reduce the risk of hearing impairment in the long term.

I've always kept my right ear uncovered and the volume low when in public. I've never walked into a pole or stepped in front of a car,

Good thing!

And as mentioned in the link above, one should keep the volume low all the time.

I maintain good situational awareness. I totally disagree with those of you who believe listening to music puts everyone in condition white.

Of course, both of those are matters of opinion.... Do you have any objective basis for either?

I have seen so many people put on their music and tune out the world and could never understand how they could do that. I see it most often with cell phones and bluetooth.

Same thing in my experience....

I do have experiences with being profiled by predators who assume I am not paying attention.

That in itself certainly seems like a good reason to not use the thing.

My attention to the world gave me confidence when I started to carry a handgun.

As Sam said in Post #22,

Uh huh! The meme of "gun as talisman." I have a gun so nothing will happen to me. Or, I have a gun so I'll be able to respond somehow if I need to. This is a pervasive mindset fault that is waaay too common.

 

[MyGreenGuns]

I like music, but if I felt the need to listen to it constantly, I would see about how to change that.

^I love music. I wouldnt want to correct my behavior any more than I would want to stop carrying a gun. There is much truth to the excerpt you included, which is why I quit using earbuds and listen to my music quietly.

Of course, both of those are matters of opinion.... Do you have any objective basis for either?

"I maintain good situational awareness." I spent my youth excessively-multitasking with everything I did. To this day I find it easy to keep track of the various inputs in my life. I make a good supervisor at work because I can keep tabs on my 7 employees and their task load as well as my own work. When I relax at home I am playing xbox, listening to music, reading THR and sometimes watching a movie. Most people focus on one item at a time, I just find it easy to do all of them at once. I know this is not normal of most folk however.
"I totally disagree with those of you who believe listening to music puts everyone in condition white." I re-worded that before I posted it. Most people tend to focus on one thing at a time, so when the music comes on they tend to lose track of other things. Do you suddenly lose track of the people around you when you hear muzak in the elevator or dentist office? You might not, but some people do.

That in itself certainly seems like a good reason to not use the thing.

^Its also a good reason not to drive a nice car, or have expensive things, or go outside after dark, or have windows on the ground level of your home. (Not being sarcastic: The house I'm building does not have windows at ground level.)

As Sam said in Post #22,

I agree with Sam, but that was not what I was saying. I know who he was talking about. Its the people who buy a gun and feel that they are somehow impervious to attack, or that they will always have a strategic advantage over a bad guy.

Its my constant need for input that gave me the confidence, not the gun. I'm scrawnier than most people, so fighting has never been my first tactical choice. Recognizing potential dangers, being aware of WHERE I am, and removing myself from the equation has always been my preferred choice for avoiding danger. I feel that has served me well.

What I meant was: I pay attention enough that IF I ever needed my gun, I wouldnt be the guy who's stray bullets zipped thru a schoolyard or across a highway. Hurting an innocent scares me more than getting myself hurt/killed.

Sorry this is so long, I'm not trying to pick a fight, just dont want to be misunderstood.

(EDIT This song came on just after I posted: "Please dont let me be misunderstood" by the Animals
"I'm just a soul who's intentions are good .. oh lord .. please dont let me be misunderstood"

 

[Neverwinter]

Walking around distracted makes you less able to recognize and react to threats.

Worth noting is the sources of the distraction referenced in that article. The injury statistics from the hospitals are for walking and phoning, with some specific incidents of texting. Of the headphones and vehicles accidents, it mentions missing the warning sound emitted by the vehicle. Not so much of a problem to people who are using headphones in a manner which still permits them to hear.

If people are going to be unsafe about using headphones, then that's their choice. But it is prudent for them to modify their usage to a pattern which doesn't steal their focus and presents no more of a hindrance than elevator music.

 

[Chris-bob]

Many of us recognize that we cannot know when we may need to defend ourselves, so we make it a practice to carry when we can. Many of us also believe that if one would not go somewhere unarmed because of a perception of a higher than usual level of risk, it is prudent to not go there at all, if it can be avoided in any way. For example, I do not go here at all; I have first-hand knowledge that the statements that the area had become "virtually problem free" were erroneous, and I believe them to have been self serving.

Exactly. I can't choose when or where or how, but I can limit the where and keep aware at all times. I even carry to church because you never know.