Forcing primers. How much is too much?

[Gato Montés]

I'm still learning all the basics using my new Lee Challenger. One of the things that came up is the difference in force needed using the Safety Prime and the press to seat a primer for different brands of brass. Magtech and Remington seem to accept them ( CCI 500's) just fine, but Winchester seems to need a lot more force on the lever to get them to seat. When they do seat, it's more of a stop, PUNCH, rather than the standard smush feeling you get with the other brands. S & B is nigh impossible and I almost have to hit the lever to get those suckers in.

I'm just nervous about detonating a primer.

Edit: I guess my question is how easy(difficult) is it to actually blow up a primer while seating in the press? Should I stop being a ninny and just push harder if it doesn't want to go?

 

[chris in va]

Those aren't military crimped are they? Needs to be chamfered off if they are.

 

[arizona98tj]

I've not seen primer crimping on small pistol brass....or, perhaps I should say that all of the 9mm and .38 Special military brass I've used have not had any primped primers. Perhaps the years I was shooting were different than the OP.

 

[Gato Montés]

Sorry, I didn't mention it was 38 specials I'm priming.

None of my brass is military, it's all saved store bought commercially manufactured ammo of which I saved the cases. It's not all the Winchester either, just ones with a 38 spl +p head stamp, the rest are fine. The S & B brass I think is crimped, however.

 

[gamestalker]

I've never had that much trouble with any brand.
Do you clean your primer pockets a little bit first?
Do you tumble your brass?
Is the brass once fired or new?

The only time I've noticed a little more resistance is with new brass, but never anything that seemed to require excessive force. I've loaded tens and tens and tens times tens of thousand of rounds without a single primer detonation. Hell, I can't even get my F.P. to do the job! jUst kidding friend. I've even deprimed quite a few over the years using only the depriming pin to push them out, and that didn't even detonate any. I've also accidentally crushed a few over the years too, because I didn't notice the brass had already been primed. An incident caused by getting complacent or working faster than my brain which isn't an unusual trend I cope with.
But the one thing you said about having to hit the handle to get them in, does raise a tad bit of concern. Primer's are generally very stable and safe to work with for normal loading practices. But if anything could detonate one during the priming process, I would think a sharp impact or someting getting in the way of flat priming rod tip a possible. That is actually something I once heard of happening to a guy priming shotshells on a Mec. A #9 pellet inadvertantly fell into the priming cup which caused a dent sufficient enough to make a 209 detonate. I don't know what a CCI-500 sounds like but Thinking back the near 3 decades since I'm sure it produces a pretty good bang. I once tossed a 209 in my Bar-B-Q just for kicks about 25 or so years ago. It was so potent that it shot a hole through the steel side of the Bar-B-Q. Back when I started loading I do remember feeling some apprehension when seating primer's, so I'm a little more inclined to think it's just something that will go away with increased experience behind the press.
One more interesting thing I heard from the horses mouth while working the the firearms business I wanted to share with you. A guy I went to high school wtih wanted to start reloading so I helped him pick out all the stuuf neede to get started. We've all heard that curiosity killed the cat, right? This moron wanted to know what makes a primer go bang, so he decided to disassemble one. He had to go to the emergency room to get either the anvil or the cup removed from his hand. Apparently it went in deep enough that it required surgery to remove it. I asked him if he had figured it out, his reply was yes, taking it apart. This same guy brought in his super nice Weatherby in more than one piece after trying to load a compressed charge for his .270 Wetherby mag. using a really fast burning powder because he wanted to get super high velocity. Once again he managed to accomplish his intended purpose. I bet that projectile was flying at the speed of light or close to it. It looked like the numerous peices of the rifle probably did as well. Judging by the cuts and bruises and steel that had to be surgically removed form all over his face, arms, and hands. Some people just shouldn't reload, or even touch the components for that matter. I think keep out of the reach of children applies to some adults.
Sorry for the long winded answer, my Wife is out of town for the next few weeks and I just can't seem to sleep. During the day is all good being that I live only a few minute away from my shooting spot.
Hope my rambling helped you in some small way. If not, I'm sure one of the other less bored guys will be able to offer a solution to the question I've already forgotten. Did I take my medication today? Hum! I'm still hearing the ringing in my ears, so I think I did.

 

[Gato Montés]

Back when I started loading I do remember feeling some apprehension when seating primer's, so I'm a little more inclined to think it's just something that will go away with increased experience behind the press.

Apprehensive is quite right. It's just that those other cases seems to accept the primer quite smoothly, and all of a sudden these guys feel like they're catching on something before they make their way in (they're not, I've checked). All my brass is once fired, and yes I did clean out the primer pockets.

From what it seems it takes a lot to actually blow one of these up. Once I've done this a few more times I'll be more comfortable and won't care as much, but until then I'm still wearing glasses AND muffs.

 

[GLOOB]

You have once-fired brass and I'm gonna guess... CCI primers? Don't worry. After you shoot them a few times, your cases will loosen up. That's a good problem to have.

Or you can change to Remington primers. They'll drop right in. Then switch to CCI when your brass gets tired.

Also, try to wiggle the shell a bit to get the primer started. I've tried to chamfer some stubborn primer pockets, but for some reason that didn't seem to help. So I get the occasional problem case as you describe. I just press the lever a bit harder till it gives.

 

[Gato Montés]

^^^
Yep yep, once fired brass and CCI primers.

So what you're saying is even with my most stubborn S&B brass, I should just wang on them till they give without threat of detonation? I'm also guessing that CCI primers are then a little larger or a less mailable than other brands?

Oh, and thanks again guys for helping a newbie!

 

[GLOOB]

In my experience of 3 brands:

Diameter: Remington<Tulammo<CCI

Cup hardness: Tulammo<Remington<CCI

CCI are the widest, and they have the hardest cup. Which makes 'em my favorite. After you shoot some hot loads through your brass, the CCI will still seat firmly while the others are barely hanging on. They also seem to ignite reliably no matter how badly you might crush them.

S&B is tight with any primer, but especially CCI. They often require a crunch to get the primer started. But I've not had any problems. As long as the primer is right-side up and the cartridge is seated properly in the shellholder, "wang" on 'em all you want. (Be sure to wear safety glasses, just in case.)

 

[243winxb]

Steady pressure/force is all that is needed till primers seat. Some seat harder than others. Just push harder. Had some 45acp brass where i did not remove the crimp fully. When i put a lot of steady force into seating, it just flattened the primers. They all fired.

 

[jhop73]

i have a bunch of S&B 357 mag with tight primer pockets, using a primer pocket uniforming tool helped a bunch.

 

[rjrivero]

243winxb has it right. Slow, steady, increasing pressure while seating primers will not detonate them. In fact, you can crush the primers flat without detonating them as long as you are steady with the pressure.

As long as the brass you're using doesn't have crimped primer pockets, then this may work for you:

Try to seat the primer. If you meet resistance, back off the lever and twist the case 1/8-1/4 of a turn and try again. 8 times out of 10 this works just fine. 2 times out of 10, you may have to twist the case a second time.

Best of luck.

RJ

 

[243winxb]

back off the lever and twist the case 1/8-1/4 of a turn and try again.

This works when the shell holder has a lot of slop in it. Watch when seating a primer, does the case tilt to one side? Rim thickness has an effect on this also.

 

[Husker_Fan]

I started reloading a couple years ago and the only primers available were Remington. I did the same as you and saved up my .38 brass and reloaded it. I've reloaded most of this brass about four or five times and notice that the primers have started seating much easier and I started seeing where the primers are flowing into the firing pin opening with standard pressure loads. I just bought CCI 500s to start using since they'll fit tighter.

As for your worries about detonating a primer, I was really nervous about it when I started and was too cautious. The result was high primers that bound up my revolver. I then started putting as much force into it as needed to get the primers seated properly and have no problems.

 

[Jim Watson]

Do not "punch" primers into the pocket. This can lead to sudden loud noises.
You can press primers in quite hard with little risk.

 

[snuffy]

S & B is nigh impossible and I almost have to hit the lever to get those suckers in.

I'm just nervous about detonating a primer.

I see the above "almost" comments means you don't actually HIT the press lever??¿

I sure hope not! Although I have never detonated a primer while seating it, I also never hit the lever either.

Priming on most single stage presses means you are priming at the bottom of the press stroke. At that point, you have the least mechanical advantage,(leverage) at any point of the ram travel. That means YOU have to provide the pressure. Lean on the handle until the primer seats, don't slam it in or hit the handle.

 

[crimsoncomet]

Slow and steady pressure! No banging on the primers while seating! I have never had this problem with pistol brass. I have had lapua rifle brass and federal match primers that were very very hard to seat. But, that is a good thing. The brass should last quite awhile. You will be fine with slow and steady and then when the primer finally touches the inside of the pocket, just go a hair more. Again, no banging!

 

[bbuddtec]

I am no example, but I'll start with this... first off, they only crack like a cap... you want eye protection, and if it doesn't go in, put the brass aside, and move on, I've crushed primers every which way, and never had one detonate, however, I did learn I'd rather save the primer So if they are stuck, just tear down (autoprime) and try to save the primer, remove with forceps, et al. Put brass aside, work on the problem ones later.

As far as the brass goes, personally, I chamfer/bevel the pocket with a wider drill bit, then de-burr with a fitting bit that has had the point flattened, like and end mill bit.

usually that clears the crimp, but I know if you have the bucks, a swager will do it much better and quicker!

I'm no model, take it or leave it

 

[dhfenno]

I got a bunch of once fired s&b brass and can attest to the fact that it is a PITA to load. The primer pockets seem to be tighter than any others I have encountered. No the ones I got weren't crimped. Make sure the pocket is lined up with the primer and use slow steady pressure. If you hit that lever eventually you will hear a loud bang.

 

[Miata Mike]

S&B brass does have tight primer pockets, but nothing that my Lee hand primer will not take care of. Absolutely not military crimped. I have done only 9mm and .45acp so far and do not recall any .40 S&W. It only gets better as I know I have done some a second time now.

And I use only CCI primers large and small.

 

[ljnowell]

In my experience with 38spcl/357mag PMC and S&B brass is the hardest to seat a primer. I actually have started throwing away S&B brass, because it sucks in general. Primer seating is difficult, leading to high primers if you arent careful and I find that the mouth splits sooner than my other brass.

 

[Gato Montés]

I see the above "almost" comments means you don't actually HIT the press lever??¿

No not at all, just trying to illustrate the huge amount of force needed to pop a primer into one of those.

Since I last posted I've tried the back out and rotate method and it seems to work like a charm. I do notice on the trouble brass that there is slight movement to the case when the primer is being seated so general slop probably has at least a little to do with it. Since apparently I can't set off a primer by applying steady force I feel a lot more at ease doing this.

 

[cerberus65]

I recommend getting a hand priming tool. Lee, RCBS, Hornady, and probably lots of other folks make them. I was having to apply borderline uncomfortable amounts of pressure priming on my press. The hand tool requires much less mashing. I won't prime any other way now and haven't for quite some time.

 

[FROGO207]

+1 on getting the hand held style tool. I highly recommend that also. I just load 25 to 50 at a time with the brands that are famous for detonating with my Lee tool. I recycle a 2 gallon pail + of used primers each year and have never in 29 years had a primer pop on me yet. With care I may never find out. YMMV

 

[ranger335v]

Not only is it virtually impossible to detonate a primer while seating, it's not a stick of dynamite so it won't blow your arm off if it does pop.