Monkeyleg
Member.
A week or so ago I received an email from our CCW group's website (www.wisconsinconcealedcarry.com). Here it is:
Dear Sir or Madam,
I was alerted of your website by my family in Eau Claire, Wisconsin.
Your activities are truly depraved and sad.
I hope that you all enjoy carrying your guns around and that it makes
you feel more important and secure.
What a sad group and a sad website.
Yours,
Greg ******
And here's my reply:
Hello, Mr. *****. Usually I don't respond to emails such as yours, primarily because of the time involved. Yours, however, struck me, perhaps because of its simple-mindedness.
First off, I must assume that you never travel outside the state of Wisconsin, or that you at least restrict your travels to Illinois, Nebraska, and Kansas. Otherwise, you're probably going to encounter citizens who are carrying concealed weapons (although you'd never know it).
Can I assume that you know that 46 of our 50 states recognize the right of citizens to have a means of self-defense? If 46 states allow concealed carry, and none have sought to repeal those concealed carry laws, could it just possibly be that Governor Doyle is wrong? And, make no mistake: had it not been for Governor Doyle's strong-arming his fellow Democrats over this bill, it would have passed handily.
Make no mistake, too, that the Governor's party will pay a dear price for his veto come November. This is not nor never has been a partisan bill: it has been passed by both parties in the Assembly in the last two sessions, passed in the senate this past session, and will more than likely come up for a vote in both chambers in 2005. And we will do everything possible to ensure that the votes are there to override Governor Doyle's veto, whether by Democrats or Republicans.
You live in Eau Claire. I've been there many times. It's a nice, peaceful town.
I live in Milwaukee, and frequently have to venture into some of the most dangerous parts of the most crime-ridden city in Wisconsin, areas where at night I'm probably the _only_ person who isn't carrying a weapon.
I've been the victim of assaults and other crimes. Some lowlife once tried to kidnap my wife. We left our old neighborhood because more than ten of our neighbors on just one block were raped or robbed as they pulled their cars into their garages after work at night, all within the period of just a couple of months. The only reason my wife was not harmed when garaging her car was that I stood guard with a shotgun, and made it visible to the punks who were approaching.
A manager of a store close to us was kidnapped from his home, forced to drive to the store and open the safe, and then was shot execution-style in the back of the head.
Teresa Sweet, a lovely and wonderfully articulate woman who lives not far from you, was gang-raped and beaten across the street from the police station in her own town. Her attackers have yet to be found, but they still let her know they're around. Her sister was also brutally raped, and her attackers likewise have never been found.
Not too long ago, a mother and her daughter were cornered in the parking lot of Popeye's Chicken on 27th and Capitol in Milwaukee. They were forced to kneel, and the mother was shot in the head execution-style with a shotgun. If you want to talk about depravity, imagine what that grisley scene must have looked like. Her killers told police that they chose her because she didn't look like she'd be carrying any kind of weapon.
A year ago last October, a woman was dragged into an alley, beaten and gang-raped by a bunch of punks. This went on for over 45 minutes. Forty-five torturous minutes. They made a bonfire of her clothing, and danced around it. Forty-five minutes of hell before a responding officer finally spotted the fire.
On New Year's Eve of 2001, I got a call from my mother-in-law. A cocaine-addicted family member was threatening my brother-in-law with a large butcher knife. I told her to call 911, which she promptly did. They live just four blocks from the police station. I live more than 50 blocks from their house. Guess who got there first?
The stories above are nothing unique to Milwaukee, Racine, Kenosha, Madison or other large cities. They happen, day in and day out. In fact, most of these stories are either buried in the Metro section, or never even make the papers at all. With 12,000 violent crimes taking place in Wisconsin every year, it would require an extra "crime" section in every newspaper to report the rapes, beatings, robberies and assaults that happen on a daily basis statewide. And there probably wouldn't be too many advertisers anxious to have their ads associated with such stories.
What would be even more time-consuming would be reporting the number of times that citizens use firearms to deter criminal activity. Yes, it happens. A 1994 study commissioned by the US Department of Justice estimated that citizens use guns to thwart crime 1.5 million times a year. An ongoing study by the criminology department at Florida State University estimates that the number could be as high as 2.5 million times a year. (By the way, the professor of that department--Gary Kleck-- is a gun-control advocate and Clinton supporter). Compare this to the criminal use of firearms, which is approximately 450,000 times per year. You wouldn't know it from the press, but the good folks are obviously winning.
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms did a study on prison inmates, asking a variety of questions. One of those questions was who the inmates feared most: police or armed citizens. Would you care to hazard a guess as to whom the inmates fear most?
There is nothing "sad" about our group, Mr. Irwin. Our group is comprised of sheriff's deputies and police officers who, from experience with the bad guys, recognize that their spouses need to have the ability to defend themselves. Within our group are prison corrections officers whose lives and the lives of their families are often just as much at risk as those of police officers. Within our ranks are district attorneys who have seen just what kind of sociopaths walk amongst us. We have rape victims, victims of spousal abuse, the elderly, the disabled. And we have those who simply believe that the responsibility for their own lives begins with themselves. We count among our volunteers people from every walk of life imaginable.
That's not sad.
If anything, what is truly sad is that you entrust your life and that of your loved ones to a system that is designed to merely take statements from witnesses and victims after the fact. State and federal courts have already established that the police have no duty to protect the individual citizen, only the community as a whole.
Or, as former Los Angeles Police Chief Darryl Gates said during the LA riots, "you're on your own."
Do I feel more "important" having a loaded gun at hand? Certainly not. No more important than I feel having a fire extinguisher on every floor.
Do I feel more "secure"? Oh, yes, sir. By having a gun at hand, and by practicing regularly with it, I know I've increased the odds that my wife or I won't become one of the statistics mentioned above. One of the vows I took when I married my wife 26 years ago was to protect her. Even should I fail, I'll know that I did my very best.
If, God forbid, you or one of your loved ones are ever attacked, what will you be able to say? That you called 911 and waited?
Respectfully yours,
Dick Baker
Treasurer, Wisconsin Concealed Carry Association
--------------------------------
And this is the reply that I received from him today:
Dear Mr. Baker,
Your e-mail response to my e-mail was so filled with anger and belief in your cause that it was hard to respond to. The reason being that you seem to be so convinced in the value of your cause that no amount of reason will sway you. This kind of hysterical logic is the same kind of logic that is turning the world into the violent place it has become. (Thanks to the current administration who has fueled the fire.)
We all are aware of crime in the United States and I am deeply sorry that you have been personally affected by it. You have experienced trauma. I would hope that you seek trauma counseling and healing for the tragic things that you have experiened. I am truly sorry about it. I can understand why you feel the way you do. But if you still live in a neighborhood that is so dangerous that you really think you need to carry a gun around with you all of the time, then I think you should consider relocating again. There is no excuse for the things that you had to experience but I think you have other options than carrying a concealed weapon.
Since you are so concerned about crime, perhaps you could concentrate on other areas where you could volunteer to make society a safer and better place. Often times this could begin with just trying to help one disadvantaged child at a time.
I actually live in Tokyo, Japan, a city of 12 million people where guns are illegal. As a result of guns being illegal here there are usually around 20 deaths per year from guns in the entire country. Living in Japan I have seen a society first hand that does not give in to groups pushing for more guns, and as a result people live harmoniously and safely. We have earthquakes to worry about but I don't carry around a hard-hat and flashlight.
Your disdain and threatening language with regard to the Governor of Wisconsin is not appropriate. You don't want your organization to sound like the people you are trying to defend yourselves from. Be aware that citizens like myself are grateful that Governor Doyle is in office to stop groups such as yours.
I understand from the bottom of my heart your desire to protect your wife and family. I just don't think carrying a gun around with you all of the time is the correct way to protect her. You seem to be under a lot of stress with all of those bad experiences so I would suggest you try yoga, meditation, or working for an organization that brings more good things to the world and less violence. You'll feel better.
I also dislike the symbol that your organization uses- a gun across the great state of Wisconsin. This is hardly the image that the state of Wisconsin wants to project to visitors coming to the state for fishing and camping trips.
You are right, Eau Claire is a nice city. Why not considering leaving Milwaukee, and getting out and seeing some other places? Take your wife on a trip to Hawaii. Take long walks on the beach. Breath in some fresh air. Get your mind off crime and on to life.
Wisconsin does not belong to you and your organization and many people in the state do not feel comfortable knowing that people can be walking around with loaded guns legally. You know from your knowledge about crime that there are a lot of wierdos out there. People will fall through the cracks. Some nut will have gotten his gun totally legally. Where is the evidence of all of the crimes that were averted because of people carrying around guns? The fact that the right to carry a concealed weapon is permitted in the states that you mentioned is really....here we go..
SAD.
No doubt it was pushed through by groups like yours. Has it made America a safer place? The problem is the question- Where does it all end?
Kind of like this e-mail. This is the great thing about the United States. We can have differences of opinion. The problem is many people lately refuse to respect the wonderful diversity in the United States. Japan is a country that doesn't respect diversity in society and I can tell you that that is one of the weaknesses of this country.
You probably feel that this letter is simple minded as well. That's fine with me because one of my mottos in life is - keep it simple. Learning to do that is a great gift.
I wish you and your wife the very best. The cherry blossoms are in full bloom, spring is in the air, and nobody is carrying a concealed weapon. Life is good.
God Bless.
Yours truly,
Greg *****
Dear Sir or Madam,
I was alerted of your website by my family in Eau Claire, Wisconsin.
Your activities are truly depraved and sad.
I hope that you all enjoy carrying your guns around and that it makes
you feel more important and secure.
What a sad group and a sad website.
Yours,
Greg ******
And here's my reply:
Hello, Mr. *****. Usually I don't respond to emails such as yours, primarily because of the time involved. Yours, however, struck me, perhaps because of its simple-mindedness.
First off, I must assume that you never travel outside the state of Wisconsin, or that you at least restrict your travels to Illinois, Nebraska, and Kansas. Otherwise, you're probably going to encounter citizens who are carrying concealed weapons (although you'd never know it).
Can I assume that you know that 46 of our 50 states recognize the right of citizens to have a means of self-defense? If 46 states allow concealed carry, and none have sought to repeal those concealed carry laws, could it just possibly be that Governor Doyle is wrong? And, make no mistake: had it not been for Governor Doyle's strong-arming his fellow Democrats over this bill, it would have passed handily.
Make no mistake, too, that the Governor's party will pay a dear price for his veto come November. This is not nor never has been a partisan bill: it has been passed by both parties in the Assembly in the last two sessions, passed in the senate this past session, and will more than likely come up for a vote in both chambers in 2005. And we will do everything possible to ensure that the votes are there to override Governor Doyle's veto, whether by Democrats or Republicans.
You live in Eau Claire. I've been there many times. It's a nice, peaceful town.
I live in Milwaukee, and frequently have to venture into some of the most dangerous parts of the most crime-ridden city in Wisconsin, areas where at night I'm probably the _only_ person who isn't carrying a weapon.
I've been the victim of assaults and other crimes. Some lowlife once tried to kidnap my wife. We left our old neighborhood because more than ten of our neighbors on just one block were raped or robbed as they pulled their cars into their garages after work at night, all within the period of just a couple of months. The only reason my wife was not harmed when garaging her car was that I stood guard with a shotgun, and made it visible to the punks who were approaching.
A manager of a store close to us was kidnapped from his home, forced to drive to the store and open the safe, and then was shot execution-style in the back of the head.
Teresa Sweet, a lovely and wonderfully articulate woman who lives not far from you, was gang-raped and beaten across the street from the police station in her own town. Her attackers have yet to be found, but they still let her know they're around. Her sister was also brutally raped, and her attackers likewise have never been found.
Not too long ago, a mother and her daughter were cornered in the parking lot of Popeye's Chicken on 27th and Capitol in Milwaukee. They were forced to kneel, and the mother was shot in the head execution-style with a shotgun. If you want to talk about depravity, imagine what that grisley scene must have looked like. Her killers told police that they chose her because she didn't look like she'd be carrying any kind of weapon.
A year ago last October, a woman was dragged into an alley, beaten and gang-raped by a bunch of punks. This went on for over 45 minutes. Forty-five torturous minutes. They made a bonfire of her clothing, and danced around it. Forty-five minutes of hell before a responding officer finally spotted the fire.
On New Year's Eve of 2001, I got a call from my mother-in-law. A cocaine-addicted family member was threatening my brother-in-law with a large butcher knife. I told her to call 911, which she promptly did. They live just four blocks from the police station. I live more than 50 blocks from their house. Guess who got there first?
The stories above are nothing unique to Milwaukee, Racine, Kenosha, Madison or other large cities. They happen, day in and day out. In fact, most of these stories are either buried in the Metro section, or never even make the papers at all. With 12,000 violent crimes taking place in Wisconsin every year, it would require an extra "crime" section in every newspaper to report the rapes, beatings, robberies and assaults that happen on a daily basis statewide. And there probably wouldn't be too many advertisers anxious to have their ads associated with such stories.
What would be even more time-consuming would be reporting the number of times that citizens use firearms to deter criminal activity. Yes, it happens. A 1994 study commissioned by the US Department of Justice estimated that citizens use guns to thwart crime 1.5 million times a year. An ongoing study by the criminology department at Florida State University estimates that the number could be as high as 2.5 million times a year. (By the way, the professor of that department--Gary Kleck-- is a gun-control advocate and Clinton supporter). Compare this to the criminal use of firearms, which is approximately 450,000 times per year. You wouldn't know it from the press, but the good folks are obviously winning.
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms did a study on prison inmates, asking a variety of questions. One of those questions was who the inmates feared most: police or armed citizens. Would you care to hazard a guess as to whom the inmates fear most?
There is nothing "sad" about our group, Mr. Irwin. Our group is comprised of sheriff's deputies and police officers who, from experience with the bad guys, recognize that their spouses need to have the ability to defend themselves. Within our group are prison corrections officers whose lives and the lives of their families are often just as much at risk as those of police officers. Within our ranks are district attorneys who have seen just what kind of sociopaths walk amongst us. We have rape victims, victims of spousal abuse, the elderly, the disabled. And we have those who simply believe that the responsibility for their own lives begins with themselves. We count among our volunteers people from every walk of life imaginable.
That's not sad.
If anything, what is truly sad is that you entrust your life and that of your loved ones to a system that is designed to merely take statements from witnesses and victims after the fact. State and federal courts have already established that the police have no duty to protect the individual citizen, only the community as a whole.
Or, as former Los Angeles Police Chief Darryl Gates said during the LA riots, "you're on your own."
Do I feel more "important" having a loaded gun at hand? Certainly not. No more important than I feel having a fire extinguisher on every floor.
Do I feel more "secure"? Oh, yes, sir. By having a gun at hand, and by practicing regularly with it, I know I've increased the odds that my wife or I won't become one of the statistics mentioned above. One of the vows I took when I married my wife 26 years ago was to protect her. Even should I fail, I'll know that I did my very best.
If, God forbid, you or one of your loved ones are ever attacked, what will you be able to say? That you called 911 and waited?
Respectfully yours,
Dick Baker
Treasurer, Wisconsin Concealed Carry Association
--------------------------------
And this is the reply that I received from him today:
Dear Mr. Baker,
Your e-mail response to my e-mail was so filled with anger and belief in your cause that it was hard to respond to. The reason being that you seem to be so convinced in the value of your cause that no amount of reason will sway you. This kind of hysterical logic is the same kind of logic that is turning the world into the violent place it has become. (Thanks to the current administration who has fueled the fire.)
We all are aware of crime in the United States and I am deeply sorry that you have been personally affected by it. You have experienced trauma. I would hope that you seek trauma counseling and healing for the tragic things that you have experiened. I am truly sorry about it. I can understand why you feel the way you do. But if you still live in a neighborhood that is so dangerous that you really think you need to carry a gun around with you all of the time, then I think you should consider relocating again. There is no excuse for the things that you had to experience but I think you have other options than carrying a concealed weapon.
Since you are so concerned about crime, perhaps you could concentrate on other areas where you could volunteer to make society a safer and better place. Often times this could begin with just trying to help one disadvantaged child at a time.
I actually live in Tokyo, Japan, a city of 12 million people where guns are illegal. As a result of guns being illegal here there are usually around 20 deaths per year from guns in the entire country. Living in Japan I have seen a society first hand that does not give in to groups pushing for more guns, and as a result people live harmoniously and safely. We have earthquakes to worry about but I don't carry around a hard-hat and flashlight.
Your disdain and threatening language with regard to the Governor of Wisconsin is not appropriate. You don't want your organization to sound like the people you are trying to defend yourselves from. Be aware that citizens like myself are grateful that Governor Doyle is in office to stop groups such as yours.
I understand from the bottom of my heart your desire to protect your wife and family. I just don't think carrying a gun around with you all of the time is the correct way to protect her. You seem to be under a lot of stress with all of those bad experiences so I would suggest you try yoga, meditation, or working for an organization that brings more good things to the world and less violence. You'll feel better.
I also dislike the symbol that your organization uses- a gun across the great state of Wisconsin. This is hardly the image that the state of Wisconsin wants to project to visitors coming to the state for fishing and camping trips.
You are right, Eau Claire is a nice city. Why not considering leaving Milwaukee, and getting out and seeing some other places? Take your wife on a trip to Hawaii. Take long walks on the beach. Breath in some fresh air. Get your mind off crime and on to life.
Wisconsin does not belong to you and your organization and many people in the state do not feel comfortable knowing that people can be walking around with loaded guns legally. You know from your knowledge about crime that there are a lot of wierdos out there. People will fall through the cracks. Some nut will have gotten his gun totally legally. Where is the evidence of all of the crimes that were averted because of people carrying around guns? The fact that the right to carry a concealed weapon is permitted in the states that you mentioned is really....here we go..
SAD.
No doubt it was pushed through by groups like yours. Has it made America a safer place? The problem is the question- Where does it all end?
Kind of like this e-mail. This is the great thing about the United States. We can have differences of opinion. The problem is many people lately refuse to respect the wonderful diversity in the United States. Japan is a country that doesn't respect diversity in society and I can tell you that that is one of the weaknesses of this country.
You probably feel that this letter is simple minded as well. That's fine with me because one of my mottos in life is - keep it simple. Learning to do that is a great gift.
I wish you and your wife the very best. The cherry blossoms are in full bloom, spring is in the air, and nobody is carrying a concealed weapon. Life is good.
God Bless.
Yours truly,
Greg *****
As a classic example of a nutcase liberal the goal of life is to constantly pursue ways to feel better about themselves and their lives, the reality of others be damned.
, yoga 
, herbal tea 