Forms of Id to buy a shotgun?

[dogtown tom]

It’s not about being in a rush, it’s about the fact that the OP already had the document he needed (the car registration), but the dealer didn’t have a clue how to do his job. Me, I don’t think it’s OK when a dealer makes up nonexistent laws and gives out bad information. If that requirement was their store policy for whatever reason, then fine. But this dealer claimed it was the law when it’s not (unless Wisconsin has some weird extra residency proof requirements, but I highly doubt that’s the case).

The sad thing is that it’s not like these ATF rules are arcane and mysterious or anything. All he’d have to do is read the instructions on the back pages of the 4473, which is a document he probably handles constantly all day long.

This.

 

[dogtown tom]

This would make sense if this were some sort of grey area. But it's not a grey area, not even close. There's no judgment call to be made. The ATF is very clear on this subject.

It's so clear, in fact, that it's written explicitly on the 4473 itself. First, the instructions on the back of the form say it clearly, and then there's even a separate box right on page 2 for the dealer to record that an additional document besides the ID was used to prove residency.

The OP had the proper documentation that the ATF says is required for him to buy his shotgun. The dealer still denied the sale and claimed that he was following the law. That's not "protecting his FFL", that's being ignorant.

Look, if the dealer wants to make some kind of store policy that they only accept certain forms of proof of residency (maybe for the purpose of making it easier to train employees or something like that), then fine. But if that's the case, then just admit it's store policy. If they claim it's the law, then they're either lying or they're ignorant. Neither is a good trait in an LGS.

This.
Again Theohazard nails it.

 

[dogtown tom]

I don't think there is any place where a car registration counts as legal ID.

No one in this thread has made that claim.
What a "car registration" CAN DO is be the additional government issued documentation of the buyers current residence address.
Anyone who reads the instructions found on every Form 4473 would know this.

Also, I think most states require you to change or update your DL within 30 days (might vary by state) when you move. That fact that you had not updated your DL for 3 months, and were trying to use car a registration document would make me very suspicious if I were the local gun dealer.

Why?
Having a DL with a different address than your actual residence address is not a prohibiting factor. That's why ATF allows use of additional documentation when the buyers residence address is different than that shown on their government issued photo ID.

I am stunned that this continues to be an issue.......as its been in the instructions on the Form 4473 for decades.

 

[cjwils]

I see that the OP is in Texas. According to the website below, he was required to file a change of address for his DL within 30 days. Maybe I am excessively careful about such things, but if I were the gun dealer involved, I might be concerned that a person who had not updated his license at least 3 months after moving was careless at best, or ignorant of legal requirements in general, or a deliberate scofflaw. I don't want to offend the OP, but if I were the dealer involved, I would be skeptical about doing business under such conditions.

https://www.dmv.com/tx/texas/address-change

 

[dogtown tom]

I see that the OP is in Texas. According to the website below, he was required to file a change of address for his DL within 30 days.

Again, NOTHING in Texas law prohibits a buyer/transferee from using a DL with a different address than his current residence address.

Maybe I am excessively careful about such things, but if I were the gun dealer involved, I might be concerned that a person who had not updated his license at least 3 months after moving was careless at best, or ignorant of legal requirements in general, or a deliberate scofflaw. I don't want to offend the OP, but if I were the dealer involved, I would be skeptical about doing business under such conditions.

Well, I AM a Texas dealer.......
And it doesn't bother me in the least as long as he meets the requirements of Federal law.
I suppose you would poop your pants if the buyer was a police officer with a P.O Box as the address on his license. ...........'cause several states allow an address OTHER THAN the residence address to be placed on the drivers license.

 

[Workingclass93]

I don't think there is any place where a car registration counts as legal ID. Also, I think most states require you to change or update your DL within 30 days (might vary by state) when you move. That fact that you had not updated your DL for 3 months, and were trying to use car a registration document would make me very suspicious if I were the local gun dealer.

Honestly I didn't even think about it till a couple of days ago. But whatever, I got a new license coming in the mail. Also I moved to a different county, still stayed in the same state.

 

[Workingclass93]

Update:
I figured I'd see what they said if I brought in the temporary license from the DMV. The guy said it was proper ID and I filled out all the paperwork for my Mossberg. Thanks to everyone for your suggestions and comments.

 

[cjwils]

Dogtown, your insults are out of place here. I am entitled to express my opinion, and my opinion is that a person who is careless and months late regarding the legal requirement to update his DL might also be careless about filing out a 4473 correctly. Again, I would be skeptical about doing business in that situation.

 

[dogtown tom]

Dogtown, your insults are out of place here. I am entitled to express my opinion, and my opinion is that a person who is careless and months late regarding the legal requirement to update his DL might also be careless about filing out a 4473 correctly. Again, I would be skeptical about doing business in that situation.

No one insulted you, unless you consider disagreement an insult.

 

[cjwils]

"No one insulted you...."
I suspect that everyone on this website except dogtown tom would agree with me that dogtown's statement in post #30 that I would poop my pants is a deliberate insult.

 

[243winxb]

 

[Theohazard]

243winxb: I haven’t seen anyone claim that you can use a P.O. box as your address on the 4473. After all, you’re required to put the address where you’re actually living at that time, and it’s pretty hard to live in a P.O. box.

When Tom mentioned P.O. boxes, he was referring to a situation where a gun buyer would have to show an additional government-issued document that had his current residence address on it (like a vehicle registration) since his ID had a P.O. box listed on it.

It’s fairly common for a person to not have their current residence address listed on their ID, whether it’s because the person moved, they’re in the military, they have a P.O. box listed, or they have multiple residences. That’s why the ATF expressly allows people to do what the OP tried to do. In fact, a car registration is the supplemental residency document I’ve seen customers use the most.

Since the dealer still wouldn’t allow the OP to use his car registration and then falsely claimed that was the law, I can only assume he’s ignorant of how to do his job. Which would be more acceptable if the fix weren’t something as simple as just reading the instructions on the 4473.

 

[243winxb]

additional government-issued document

Yes, as in link post #3.

 

[Theohazard]

Yes, the link to the 4473 you posted; what about it? I honestly have no idea what point you’re trying to make with your last two posts.

 

[entropy]

In my state they print your new licence in about 1 minute while you wait.

Also in WI, at the actual DMV centers.

And I live in Wisconsin,

See above.

This is a big sporting goods store,

Scheel's?

 

[dogtown tom]

"No one insulted you...."
I suspect that everyone on this website except dogtown tom would agree with me that dogtown's statement in post #30 that I would poop my pants is a deliberate insult.

But that's NOT what I wrote.
AGAIN, "I suppose you would poop your pants if the buyer was a police officer with a P.O Box as the address on his license. ...........'cause several states allow an address OTHER THAN the residence address to be placed on the drivers license". I'm not accusing you of pooping your pants......that WOULD BE an insult. It was a supposition, based on you being fearful.


Your own admission of being "excessively careful" in a routine transaction by a licensed dealer (of which you are not) would seem to indicate ignorance of federal law and ATF procedures and leads me to believe that when confronted by the unexpected you would not have any idea what to do.

I would suspect that anyone reading this thread who has also read the instructions on the Form 4473 would agree that you are no different than the OP's dealer (who hasn't read the instructions on the Form 4473.)

 

[cjwils]

dogtown tom denies that he wrote an insult that he clearly did write in post #30.

I am not fearful at all. I request the moderators to close this before I tell dogtown what I really think about his deliberate insult. I will go further and say the moderators failed to do their job by not taking action immediately after the insult in post #30.

 

[bushmaster1313]

IIRC, to run a NICS check the FFL must have a photo ID of the transferee (the buyer) from a government agency.

This raises an interesting point, if a photo ID for voting is said to suppress the vote, doesn't a photo ID to buy a gun supress exercise of the 2A?

 

[tluxtele]

Its just a Mossberg 500 and yes i have a clean record. I know about armslist, but have always been wary to try that, somehow meeting up with a complete stranger to buy a gun doesn't sit well with me.

I understand your apprehension. I have had the same in the past. You can usually tell if someone is on the up and up by asking certain questions and maybe asking for a few more pictures. Another thing you can do is contact your local law enforcement and ask them if they mind if you do the transaction in their parking lot. It would take a special kind of stupid and evil to want to murder a stranger from Armslist in the parking lot of a police station.

I've done three deals on Armslist, two as a seller and one as a buyer. As the seller I decided we'd meet in a public place (Walmart parking lot worked for me) and one of the buyers was a LEO anyway. The handgun I bought was from a firefighter and we met at the firehouse while he was working.

Just be wise. And even take someone with you if you're unsure.

dogtown tom denies that he wrote an insult that he clearly did write in post #30.

I am not fearful at all. I request the moderators to close this before I tell dogtown what I really think about his deliberate insult. I will go further and say the moderators failed to do their job by not taking action immediately after the insult in post #30.

I'm not trying to get in the middle of something so I'll politely ask that if you believe you're being attacked that you be the bigger man and walk away so the OP can continue to use his thread as he sees fit. I'm sorry you feel attacked. I hope y'all can work it out.

 

[Art Eatman]

See Post #32.

 

[Dr.Rob]

I have bought guns with my correct address on a sticker on the back of my driver's license--but that has been a couple years now.