Bazooka Joe71
Member
Don't you just love the double standard antis AND fence sitters have on guns?
Four-Year-Old Girl Shoots Herself at Sam's Club
- Thread starter LiquidTension
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Don't you just love the double standard antis AND fence sitters have on guns?
cassandrasdaddy
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you ever see the demo of "child proof" caps
matt87
Member
Okay guys, my bad on two points:
1) cocking force of the P7 is c.70N, which is c.15lb not 7
2) underestimating the strength of toddlers. Suppose that not havingnay of my own doesn't help there
And of course I was in no way condoning relying on the squeeze-cocker mechanism to be blase about leaving a loaded gun around kids.
1) cocking force of the P7 is c.70N, which is c.15lb not 7
2) underestimating the strength of toddlers. Suppose that not havingnay of my own doesn't help there
And of course I was in no way condoning relying on the squeeze-cocker mechanism to be blase about leaving a loaded gun around kids.
You are absolutely correct. Many of the comments here about "training" and "teaching" their young children to do right are obviously made by naive or first-time parents. Yes, absolutely train and teach, but do not think that is a guarantee they will not stray. Certainly, don't bet their lives on it by allowing access to loaded firearms.
K
plexreticle
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- Oct 8, 2006
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- 1,240
Grandma was flubbing up by the numbers:
1. CCW in a purse
2. Put kid in cart with purse
3. doesn't manage child or handgun
1. CCW in a purse
2. Put kid in cart with purse
3. doesn't manage child or handgun
ScottsGT
Member
I just found out last night that a very close friend of mine is the first cousin of grandma. Things are not looking too good for the little girl. She has Cystic Fibrosis, and her lungs are filling up with fluid. Doc's are working as hard as they can.
atblis
Member
Not my point
Right. It would simply be another layer of prevention. Something like that could very well have bought Grandma enough time to see what was going on and...
Anyways, I very highly doubt a small kid could actuate that lever. It is sized for adult hands.
Now, if we start talking about 5-6 years of age, then...
Right. It would simply be another layer of prevention. Something like that could very well have bought Grandma enough time to see what was going on and...
Anyways, I very highly doubt a small kid could actuate that lever. It is sized for adult hands.
Now, if we start talking about 5-6 years of age, then...
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06
Member
If you "glockies" promise not to beat me on this--IMO two things happened that should not. #1 was leaving her pocket book instead of carrying it. #2 was leaving her gun where a kid could get to it. Then there is this--if it had been a 1911 style I doubt the child could have fired it. First it had to be cocked, thumb safety off, grip safety on, and then pull the trigger. With a "glock" style you simply have to pull the trigger on a loaded chamber, wc
Bazooka Joe71
Member
I doubt any "glockies" are going to beat you for that, since most of the "glockies" hear have enough common sense to not leave a loaded firearm around a 4 year old...Keep it on your hip/ankle/etc. where it belongs.
Telling 4 year old do not do?
Many years ago, 20? My Daughter was an early childhood education teacher, two of the parents who came to pick up little Johnny? Sam, whatever, were both Lawyers, totally/rabidly/anti-gun, which my Daughter found out... Little? chap, aged 4, playing in sand box, with an other child's toy.
A toy plastic pistol, when Mommy and Daddy arrived, he promptly pointed it at the two parents and said Bang-Bang! Sue said they went nuts! ending the tirade to explain to their child "Guns are bad Miss Susan hates them, don't you?" Susan said "not really, my Dad is a Firearms Instructor"
Law laid down, no toy guns! OK, that's the way it will be.
Night # 2, same sand boxed child (he apparently liked the sand box) Mummy and Daddy had a little plastic shovel pointed at them... Bang-Bang!
Many years ago, 20? My Daughter was an early childhood education teacher, two of the parents who came to pick up little Johnny? Sam, whatever, were both Lawyers, totally/rabidly/anti-gun, which my Daughter found out... Little? chap, aged 4, playing in sand box, with an other child's toy.
A toy plastic pistol, when Mommy and Daddy arrived, he promptly pointed it at the two parents and said Bang-Bang! Sue said they went nuts! ending the tirade to explain to their child "Guns are bad Miss Susan hates them, don't you?" Susan said "not really, my Dad is a Firearms Instructor"
Law laid down, no toy guns! OK, that's the way it will be.
Night # 2, same sand boxed child (he apparently liked the sand box) Mummy and Daddy had a little plastic shovel pointed at them... Bang-Bang!
Has Donna Hutto Williamson been charged with a crime yet?
Seems to be a blackout on this one. No news stories on Google News since June 12. That's a bad sign. Whenever there is a delay in reporting details about a bad shooting done by a person who has some political pull it usually means coverup or whitewash.
I hope her license to carry a firearm is revoked immediately. She's dangerous.
Seems to be a blackout on this one. No news stories on Google News since June 12. That's a bad sign. Whenever there is a delay in reporting details about a bad shooting done by a person who has some political pull it usually means coverup or whitewash.
I hope her license to carry a firearm is revoked immediately. She's dangerous.
Tragic story. I hope the little girl pulls through. Grandma on the other hand...
I don't think that's the case, k. We've trained our 3 yr old to never point a toy gun (he does not have any) or anything he is play shooting with at anyone including himself. Now I absolutely do not condone leaving a load firearm in reach of a 3-4 yr old and all mine are locked up unless on me. I may be a first time parent (who isn't with their first born), but I'm certainly not naive and training them does work. It may save their life or prevent a tragedy some day. With childeren you need redundency with safety. Education is one level, gun safe another, storing ammo seperate from the gun yet another level. I don't like purse/fanny pack carry unless absolutely necessary. They have a hard time gaining access to a holstered pistol.
I don't think that's the case, k. We've trained our 3 yr old to never point a toy gun (he does not have any) or anything he is play shooting with at anyone including himself. Now I absolutely do not condone leaving a load firearm in reach of a 3-4 yr old and all mine are locked up unless on me. I may be a first time parent (who isn't with their first born), but I'm certainly not naive and training them does work. It may save their life or prevent a tragedy some day. With childeren you need redundency with safety. Education is one level, gun safe another, storing ammo seperate from the gun yet another level. I don't like purse/fanny pack carry unless absolutely necessary. They have a hard time gaining access to a holstered pistol.
We all are for our 2nd ammendment rights, but maybe an IQ test should be given first. I have 3 grandaughters uner 7, and I start putting things in order ASAP if I even think they will be by our house. Never should the kid and the gun have been in that close a proximity, anyone that scatterbrained should have never been given a permit.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
So scatterbrained people should not have the right to 2A self defense?
I do think you are confused on what IQ is and what being scatterbrained is. Higher intelligence isn't mutually exclusive from being scatterbrained or responsible. The gun owner in question may have had a very high level of intelligence. Many horribly irresponsible drivers of vehicles are intelligent as well.
There should be some kind of dangerous quotient (DQ). If someone scores as high on DQ as Judge Donna Hutto Williamson, then they get their carry permit revoked immediately.
There is no need for the general public to be exposed to an armed idiot as she.
Let her carry some pepper spray or something. Not a gun.
Why hasn't that woman been charged yet, I wonder...
SCKimberFan
Member
I just checked The State, the newspaper in Columbia SC. There has been nothing new since June 11. The story that day just talked about magistrates carrying guns for protection in & out of their offices. If this were not a .gov official, you can be certain they would no longer have a permit to carry.
distra,
No disrespect to first time parents, we are all such at one time or another. I've never said, in this or similar threads, that teaching and training aren't a good idea. Obviously, they are. But, it's the naive parent who believes their precious bundle of joy will never stray from their appointed path. The training is an important layer of protection for them and others, but it shouldn't be the only one. Secure their access to the guns when they are not in your direct control and supervision. Every gun accident involving a child is, foremost, a tragedy that will haunt the parents forever. It is also ammo for the antis.
K
No disrespect to first time parents, we are all such at one time or another. I've never said, in this or similar threads, that teaching and training aren't a good idea. Obviously, they are. But, it's the naive parent who believes their precious bundle of joy will never stray from their appointed path. The training is an important layer of protection for them and others, but it shouldn't be the only one. Secure their access to the guns when they are not in your direct control and supervision. Every gun accident involving a child is, foremost, a tragedy that will haunt the parents forever. It is also ammo for the antis.
K
ScottsGT
Member
Ditto!!
Example, my 12 year old (almost 13) can handle an M1 Carbine like nothing you have ever seen. HIs favorite is the Ruger 10/22. Great shot, I've pounded in the 4 basics every time a gun comes around him. I felt real comfortable with his gun handling safety, so I let him buy a BB gun, and I allowed him to make the judgement call when and where to shoot. All was great until last week when a neighbor kid returned from reform school for the summer. He managed to talk my son into shooting a golfer on the golf course behind his house. Cops brought my son home in the back of his cruiser, but guy does not want to press charges. Thank God! All trust is gone, he no longer gets his BB gun, and won't until he's old enough to move out. Now he's working his butt off as punishment, and I won't even take him shooting next time I go.
In your defense, I think you did the right thing.
You gave your son responsibility. Parents need to do more of that.
Now that he has proven himself unworthy of that trust, he has to re-earn it. You have proven to him you thought he was worthy of trust and now you have proven there are consequences to his decisions.
Children need growing experiences like this.
This is a powerful example of how children cannot really be trusted with guns. Their cognitive and emotional processes simply are not developed enough to rely on them to avoid doing stupid stuff like this--even with clear, strict and persistent training, some kids will not use adult-level judgment when they should. It's gotta give parents gray hair dealing with that.
Adult supervision of any child using a gun anytime is a must. If some kid shoots me, I'm pressing charges. It would be a hassle but it is definitely the responsible thing to do--for both the kid and the parents. Shooting out windows or even pets is one thing, shooting a human is pretty unforgivable. It is strong evidence of dangerous anti-social tendency. And if the kid does it once, then again sometime later, whoa, talk about liability and consequences...and regret.
This is a good cautionary tale. Thank you for sharing it.
Kids can't be trusted with firearms?...
I guess I need to go look at the statistics from the 40s and 50s of all the deaths caused by the children allowed to carry firearms to school, into the woods, to the range all by themselves....
Indeed it is.
How are children different now than they were in the 40s and 50s? Has some change to our genetic structure been caused by exposure to microwaves and cell phones so that children are different entities in 2008 than they were in the 40s and 50s?
/sarcasm off
To make a blanket statement that children cannot be trusted with _____ when they have, in the past, successfully been trusted with such is a review of the FAILURE OF PARENTING, not of children.
Why can't a child be trusted? It is only due to the failure of a parent.
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