Frangible 7.62x39 for coyotes?

[joneb]

I have permission to hunt coyotes on a small ranch with neighbors close by to the north and to the south. My concern is ricochets, are frangible bullets a option on soft targets?
Range to targets could be 100-300 yrds I have a 22 Hornet, 7.62x39, and a 308 Win. that I'm thinking I will use. For the Hornet I can get a sintered copper lead free 40gr bullet from Nosler and work on a load for that or I have 125 gr Nos BT for the .308. or I have 123 gr Nosler varmintgedon for a bolt action 7.62x39. not sure if I can find a frangible bullet for soft targets in .308 win. and 7.62x39?
For up to 40 yrds I've used a 12 ga FC with #2 lead or #4 buck shot, For out to 100 yrds I've used a 22 mag with 40 gr HP.
What do you think my best plan should be? My shooting lane will be east, the wind is often out of the west so I think shorter range shots will be hard to come by.

 

[MCgunner]

What do you have that's accurate enough? 300 yards on a yote is a long way. I'd tend toward the .22 hornet, myself.

 

[joneb]

What do you have that's accurate enough? 300 yards on a yote is a long way. I'd tend toward the .22 hornet, myself.

The .308 Win would be best for 300 yrd, the Hornet and the 7.62x39 would be better suited for 200 yrd. We sometimes have a cold northeast wind which would open the door for closer range shots, the rancher has already lost five calves.
My biggest concern is ricochets.

 

[Bfh_auto]

They do sell .310 vmax bullets. If you don't reload, look into zmax ammo.

 

[joneb]

They do sell .310 vmax bullets. If you don't reload, look into zmax ammo.

I do reload. I am wondering if anyone makes a frangible for soft targets in a .310-.311 dia. 123 ish grain bullet.

 

[Bfh_auto]

In my experience vmax break apart when they hit anything.

 

[joneb]

In my experience vmax break apart when they hit anything.

At what velocity?

 

[Bfh_auto]

I've run them in 22@4000fps, 243@3900fps, and 264@2900. Each caliber has a different jacket thickness because of intended velocity.
I copied this from Hornady website
SWAGED LEAD CORE
The swaging process allows precise formation of the core up and around the tip, with a cavity under the tip's stem. This allows the tip to build up energy before smashing into the core, causing dramatic fragmentation of the core and jacket

 

[FL-NC]

Don't shoot toward houses, and don't count on any round to break apart when you don't have the final say in what it is even going to hit. Use terrain to your advantage to insure bullets won't end up in someone's house. To me, 300 yards isn't far. I have a sub MOA rifle that I can shoot 1 MOA or better with all day long. Yesterday I was shooting 8" gongs at 600 yards in the rain and wind. The vital area on a yote is more than 3".

 

[joneb]

Don't shoot toward houses

I do not intend to, what is your definition of toward?

 

[Klint Beastwood]

I do not intend to, what is your definition of toward?

Defining a left and right lateral limit not in the direction of houses, and knowing your target and what lies beyond it. Bullets do weird things that can’t always be predicted when they hit, even if you think they are frangibile. It would be regretful if something bad was to happen due to negligence, just eliminate those possibilities by not firing towards property as a general rule of the thumb.

 

[joneb]

Defining a left and right lateral limit not in the direction of houses, and knowing your target and what lies beyond it. Bullets do weird things that can’t always be predicted when they hit, even if you think they are frangibile. It would be regretful if something bad was to happen due to negligence, just eliminate those possibilities by not firing towards property as a general rule of the thumb.

POI would be about seventy five to ninety degrees to adjacent properties. This is the purpose of the thread, to use the safest means to eliminate coyotes, pelt damage is of no concern.

 

[Klint Beastwood]

POI would be about seventy five to ninety degrees to adjacent properties. This is the purpose of the thread, to use the safest means to eliminate coyotes, pelt damage is of no concern.

i know. My statement wasn’t interrogative, it was a merely a suggestion backed up by some nonindepth reasoning.

 

[joneb]

Defining a left and right lateral limit not in the direction of houses, and knowing your target and what lies beyond it. Bullets do weird things that can’t always be predicted when they hit, even if you think they are frangibile. It would be regretful if something bad was to happen due to negligence, just eliminate those possibilities by not firing towards property as a general rule of the thumb.

and knowing your target and what lies beyond it

Behind the property or what lies behind it is three miles of BLM land.

 

[horsey300]

Behind the property or what lies behind it is three miles of BLM land.

You can get frangible pills for the .308, but with either the .22 or .308, you need a fast enough twist, the all copper bullets are LONG! A 22 pill that I've found to be extremely accurate, very lethal, and VERY fragile, is the hornady 50 gr spsx, they're more splosive than the vmax so they do shatter nicely and I've yet to see one ricocheting on multiple surfaces (have gone through several hundred of these) the other one to maybe look into would be the TNT.
For the X49, I've ricocheted more 22 Lr pills than .223, .243, .308, .300 win mag etc. The X39 at 300 yds will be moving too slow, forget it.
The .308 with a 110 gr Sierra varminter or Nosler varmageddon pushing as fast as you can would be my 2nd choice to the spsx .22 for your intended use. You could try sinterfire .308s but again, your twist will have to fit . Good luck. And git them pesky critters outta the cows already!

 

[Bfh_auto]

I think he wants frangible bullets for the added safety factor. Like many said bullets do weird things, so he is stacking the odds in his favor. I have used vmax and varminter bullets without pass through on coyotes. I push them as hard as I can though.

 

[<*(((><]

If your looking in particular for 7.62x39 frangible then I would look into these from Engel Ballistic Research. I have no affiliation with them, nor have I even shot these, but have came across their website and researched some of their other offerings and remembered they produced a frangible.



Below copied from their website:
EBR's 7.62 x 39 FPF round is specifically designed for use around sensitive assets in which it would be unacceptable to puncture the facility's structures. It is specifically loaded to produce a lower but consistent velocity utilizing a frangible projectile, which will not ricochet intact. It will also defeat up to Level III-A soft body armor while producing a large wound channel behind it. It reliably functions in all AK, RPK, and RPD type weapons.

The Lead-Free EBR Frangible line is ideal for home defense, shoot houses and steel targets. EBR frangible ammunition provides an extra measure of accuracy and safety for those training or protecting their home. The projectile is designed to break apart against hard surfaces, significantly reducing the chance ricochet or over penetration.

Projectile Weight : 125gr
Muzzle Velocity : 1950 FPS

The Lead-Free EBR Frangible line is ideal for home defense, shoot houses and steel targets. EBR frangible ammunition provides an extra measure of accuracy and safety for those training or protecting their home. The projectile is designed to break apart and expand in soft tissue or hard surfaces, significantly reducing the chance ricochet or over penetration.
Recommended Barrel Length: 14.5 - 16"
Recommended Barrel Twist Rate: 1 in 9"
*Barrel Length and Twist Rate recommendations allow for optimum accuracy, muzzle velocity, and projectile stabilization.

7.62 x 39mm Facility Protection Frangible Ballistic Table
Weight: 123gr
G1 Ballistic Coefficient: .370
Sight Height: 1.5”

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

Rocky Mountain Reloading has 7.62x39 bullets that are frangible available on their website. I believe they are made by Sinterfire

 

[Art Eatman]

Sierra makes a 110-grain hollowpoint as a varmint bullet in .308. Should be pretty much a blow-up bullet inside of 300 yards.

 

[joneb]

Rocky Mountain Reloading has 7.62x39 bullets that are frangible available on their website. I believe they are made by Sinterfire

Thanks, and I may try them $100/500 ct seemed reasonable.

 

[joneb]

I stopped by the Nosler show room today and picked up some .224" 40gr lead free p/n 45160 which is a sintered copper ballistic tip. This could be a good out to 200 yrd option for the 22 Hornet.
I also got some Nosler Varmageddon 110 gr for the .308 win. p/n VG6247 that I try with IMR XBR 8208, H- 4895, and maybe Varget for a 22" 1:12 bolt action. This would be my second option but if I need more range I will use it, the greater the distance will increase the angle to adjacent properties.

 

[jmorris]

I have permission to hunt coyotes on a small ranch with neighbors close by to the north and to the south. My concern is ricochets, are frangible bullets a option on soft targets?

On option to mitigate ricochet or an option to eliminate?

The best idea might be to not shoot at all, if you can’t be sure all of your bullets stay on your property.

I guess it depends on what “small” and “close by” means.

 

[horsey300]

I stopped by the Nosler show room today and picked up some .224" 40gr lead free p/n 45160 which is a sintered copper ballistic tip. This could be a good out to 200 yrd option for the 22 Hornet.
I also got some Nosler Varmageddon 110 gr for the .308 win. p/n VG6247 that I try with IMR XBR 8208, H- 4895, and maybe Varget for a 22" 1:12 bolt action. This would be my second option but if I need more range I will use it, the greater the distance will increase the angle to adjacent properties.

I'd be interested to hear if the sintered bullets stabilize outta the hornet.

 

[joneb]

I'd be interested to hear if the sintered bullets stabilize outta the hornet.

I loaded up five of each of the Nosler 40 gr lead free with PPU brass GM205 AR primers, I tried 11.0 and 11.3 gr of 300 MP @1.925" COL, and 11.2 @1.895" and 11.5 gr of H-110 @ 1.915". These loads all shot about 4-5" high and 2" right of a comparabile load with a 40 gr nosler BT and the groups were about 3" @ 100 yds there was no signs of key holes.
I'm shooting a H&R handy rifle with a 22" 1:9 twist I can easily get 1" groups @ 100 with this rifle.
I am not sure what to try next with this LF bullet, I will ask Nosler.

 

[armoredman]

Lehigh Defense offers a copper frangible called Controlled Chaos for 7.62x39mm in .311, 123gr size. Made for extreme fracturing.