French Shotgun OLD

[The Alaskan]

So my neighbor got wind of e going to the range this past weekend and asked if I would give him a refresher course on gun cleaning for a couple shotguns he had. What be brought over was a Winchester Model 1912 (NOT a Model 12, though I know they're the same gun) take down built in 1914 in an original canvas case with leather trim and straps, and a Model 94 in 25-35 built in 1909. Awesome. But the other gun I'd never heard of before. A French made side by side 12 gauge shotgun with some engraving on the receiver and on the lock that holds the forearm in place.

It's marked Fusil Robust Brevet, and calibre 12 Normal. It's obviously French, but that's all I know about it. I found some other references online (not much) that suggest they were made sometime in the 20th century, possibly at the St. Etienne Armory. That's about it.

Given that it's from the same original owner (my neighbor's grandfather) and the other two guns are early 20th century, and in about the same condition (probably 10% blueing or less but the wood on both guns is great and not a spot of rust with immaculate bores or rifling), I'm willing to guess this gun is also early twentieth century, but does anyone know anyway to pin down a manufacture date, at least with a few years?

Only the lever gun actually needed cleaning, but we coated them all in Barricade. I gave him the usual warning about no steel shot and told him I would probably have to hand load ammo for the lever gun, IF I could even find brass. He's not really a shooter, so I don't think it will be an issue.

 

[Jim K]

The "Normal" mark indicates that the gun is chambered for 2 1/2 inch shells, so 2 9/16 or 2 3/4 inch should not be used. (Finding 2 1/2" shells would be difficult, but if the gun is not going to be fired, the question is moot.)

Fusil Robust Brevet means "Robust barrel, patented" and (AFAIK) does not indicate the maker. It might indicate solid steel barrels rather than Damascus barrels; the proof marks should show the level of proof.

Good pictures of the barrels with proof and other marks may elicit more information.

Jim

 

[Jim Watson]

I don't have a lot of satisfying information, just to say that the Manufrance Robust shotguns are decent mid-grade doubles made by the bazillion from about 1900 until the 1980s. I remember them advertised by The Old Western Scrounger (Interarms) along with their usual crop of surplus military rifles in the 1960s.

They seem to be mostly distinguished by monobloc barrel construction with a pronounced step from monobloc to tube, making no attempt to fair them into a smooth taper like other brands (Beretta, Perazzi.)

For some reason it got translated as a "rifle" which is obviously wrong, but there are pictures and catalog cuts at
http://www.littlegun.info/arme francaise/saint etienne/a manufrance fusil robust gb.htm

Polywad will cheerfully sell him 2 1/2" shells at low pressure in case he has an early one.
http://www.polywad.com/vintager.html

 

[The Alaskan]

The "Normal" mark indicates that the gun is chambered for 2 1/2 inch shells, so 2 9/16 or 2 3/4 inch should not be used. (Finding 2 1/2" shells would be difficult, but if the gun is not going to be fired, the question is moot.)

Fusil Robust Brevet means "Robust barrel, patented" and (AFAIK) does not indicate the maker. It might indicate solid steel barrels rather than Damascus barrels; the proof marks should show the level of proof.

Good pictures of the barrels with proof and other marks may elicit more information.

Jim

Thanks, Jim. I suspected that the "normal" indicated what is today ABnormal, as in those odd length shells. (I couldn't remember the exact length, but I knew they were shorter than 2-3/4.) I think I actually have one box of Bismuth 2-1/2 shells that I got with an ammo can full of other Bismuth shot I bought off Craigslist for my own vintage shotguns. If I remember correctly, that was a popular length for many of the finer British doubles, was it not?

I can't recall for certain the proof marks, I want to say it was stamped "Nickel Steel" (but that my have been the Win Mod 94 he had). It's definitely not Damascus.

I won't be able to get any photos. It's back over in my neighbor's gun safe, and I might not be seeing it for a while, if ever again.